I find the “therapist Pepper” jokes really funny, because 8 times out of 10 it’s not inaccurate, but now and again he will slip up and just say the WORST thing a therapist could ever say.
Guy’s about to get pushed down the stairs. Which. Might be bad.
“Guy’s about to get pushed down the stairs.” if true then calling it that either there’s realistic consequences, or it’s just a cartoony injury and Achilles thinks Mar’s is cheating or smth. Either way “He/I fell down the stairs” jokes will ensue
Given Batty’s proclivities as well as how Achilles’ injuries tend to be, especially that eye, I don’t think Pepper is getting out of a fall down the stairs with just a comedy goose egg on his head.
I’m honestly more worried about the *psychological* damage – Pepper’s been having nightmares about falling down stairs ever since seeing the ones at the world’s edge, and has been too scared to confront them since. Having a bad experience now would probably set that trauma in stone for a good while.
I could kind of see this playing out actually. they went to his room and everything. where his very fuckable bed is. and then there is a window right there where someone could potentially see in. although I feel like pepper might have an easier time clearing things up with achilles, since he can actually talk to him about the stairs, although I don’t think he mentioned his fear to him yet
Pepper falling down the stairs and getting a realistic injury would be so funny considering all the looney tunes shenanigans Achilles gose through and able to brush off.
It’s not that Mars doesn’t want Achilles to do something different, it’s that Mars doesn’t want to make Achilles change. Pepper is laser focused on this solution of ‘just tell Achilles what you want’, but he’s not framing it in a way that Mars would be receptive to.
a lot to be said about being blind to his own debilitating fear for trying to puff up so much on “being right” and most definitely potentially putting him in real soon-to-be danger!
Let’s look at this from Mars’ perspective for a moment. Pepper insisted on having a talk and dragged Mars to his attic, only to say some real upsetting stuff to her and have the gall to act indignant when she gets upset about it.
To be fair, Pepper’s original use of “Good luck with that” was very dismissive and used immediately in the face of someone having a meltdown over an issue he didn’t have a reliable bead on. Pepper means well, and he does get a lot of things right, but he also whiffs things >badly< sometimes.
Which is nice, that he's not infallible. But nicer still is the fact that people are acknowledging it.
It’s truly hard to believe that Mars wound up being the one resident with the healthiest boundaries of them all. She said “I can take you”, it hardly matters that he’s physically blocking the staircase, and restraining her in this conversation. From my perspective Mars is entertaining Pepper, she never asked for anyone else’s point of view, and she was about to go resolve shit her own way.
Same time though, Pepper forcing her to spend a whole day minding Achilles (giving him a chance instead of running off to do nothing) is part of why they got so close, so I think she respects that giving Pepper the time of day is still worth it.
Pepper didn’t imply that Achilles needed to change, though? He correctly observed that Mars is mad at Achilles for doing something but won’t ask him to do anything different. Like, Pepper’s initial advice was that Mars and Achilles don’t have anything to be ashamed of, and Mars rejected it, saying that the problem is Achilles.
On 538 when she’s explaining why she’s upset, she says, “Achilles is weird. It’s just making everything else weird, too. … Everything would be normal if he just knew how to keep his mouth shut.” Pepper isn’t blaming her feelings of shame and her conflict with Chloe on Achilles — Mars is. And Achilles has not done anything wrong, hasn’t broken any promises, because Mars didn’t set any boundaries with him or ask for anything besides money, and she’s pissed at him anyway. Pepper is, if anything, defending Achilles here.
Damn. A sudden poker-face, all the manic energy vanishes, and just a really quiet but pointed “Fuck you” could be either very unsettling or kinda heartbreaking. Especially if she just walks off afterwards in a very normal manner.
peppers’ clair is totally showing at the end here. he is also dangerously close to the edge of that staircase
also also trust the dog to understand positive reinforcement
and I dunno I feel like a kiss might not have been well received by her either? was it cool that he just opened her mouth? kinda feel like he deserved a punch anyway. but in that case I agree that she positively reinforced a thing he shouldn’t do. but I also feel like it’s a lot to just lay on someone when they weren’t really seeking your input. like “hey come here into my inner sanctum so I can tell you some harsh shit.” but then again she also was seeking his input, she did agree to go upstairs and hear him out, although veiled as a favor to him kind of.
it’s forward and he’s not necessarily wrong, but I personally wouldn’t like someone just telling me some shit they thought I needed to hear unless I REALLY trusted them.
Further on this!
When Achilles shouted at Pepper, he was complaining about not having his questions be answered.
Mars is doing the opposite: mad about getting answers to questions she isn’t asking. At least, so we think.
Haha, it seems Pepper is the type of dog that reads a book or sees a movie and says “this could have been avoided if blah blah blah” instead of enjoying it.
He may be right in this case tho, however…
… not everyone wants to be sorted out… :chloe-XC:
Dog-pilling on the therapy dog and how he should be therapying aside (hehe), there is some valid criticism on Pepper’s behavior. If I were in Mars’s state of mind, I’d probably be a bit too pissed to fully understand any advice being given to me, and probably would’ve appreciated a bit of time to think on my own abt it.
Maybe Pepper’s stirring the pot on purpose to just get the damn ball moving, with how much arm twisting it takes to get anyone to be sincere about anything LMAO Maybe there’s some frustration bubbling up again on his end, wanting for just anyone to fucking listen to the guy that knows more about how people ought to treat each other for once.
Stranglely enough, I’m able to see both sides here with surprising clarity, or perhaps I’ve managed to succinctly project my own interpersonal experiences onto both of them xD
In other words, both sides are valid for their own reasons. Can’t wait to see how this full convo turns out
Mars is a queen. She doesn’t want Achilles to change, and she will make sure that he’s protected at all costs. She stayed silent when it was about her, but once Pepper starts making comments about Achilles needing to be changed, she fights back.
Though also, ouch. It’s painful since this is a really perfect allegory about how autistic people are “expected” to conform to being “normal”.
At the same time like, Pepper is getting at something real here. Achilles couldn’t read that Mars would’ve liked him to kiss her, and would probably gladly do that if it was made clear to him. Same about telling Chloe about their business transactions. Mars keeps expecting Achilles to understand subtext that he could not perceive if you gave him a microscope.
At the same time, Mars is in the process of figuring this out herself, she doesn’t need Pepper to tell her how to treat Achilles.
Except, she stumbled like twice on this? And she tried giving him an explanation back at Claire’s in #513. I don’t think this is something she’s incapable of figuring out herself, it’ll just take some trial and error.
1. “What I’m obviously right about” is INSANE work. Especially since he doesn’t seem to realize that Mars doesn’t actually WANT Achilles to act different. Or at least, that seems to be the common consensus. Though she does at the very least seem to want him to be less discreet.
2. I’d say Pepper needs to do a better job listening, but Mars isn’t exactly giving him much to listen TO, and Mars IS right that he’s just forcing this therapy session upon her, so… Hm… Not exactly any easy answers here. Speaking from experience, I know that the two forces of “You’re not listening to me, but also I don’t want to talk to you” and “I’m obviously right, so let me fix your easy problem” meeting is quite unpleasant to be a part of.
3. Pepper should just shut up and let Mars stuff her face in his chest. That will fix EVERYTHING. Trust. :pepper-cutesy:
I kind of disagree on point two. Pepper didn’t force Mars to talk; the only lie he told was why he wanted to have this conversation upstairs, which she immediately saw through, called him out, and started to discuss it anyway. Mars has repeatedly gone to Pepper for advice, but her defensiveness and fear of seeming vulnerable means she can’t ask for anything directly, which is why she only engages with Pepper when it’s framed transactionally (see when they talked after Peachy knocked down the tree) and why she’s unwilling to just ask Achilles to kiss her or keep things secret. Notice she only really agreed to talk when she clocked that Pepper needed her to go upstairs and that she’d be doing him a favor as well. If she didn’t want to talk, she wouldn’t have.
I also disagree with one because I think everyone is focusing on the kiss/teeth remark instead of the broader argument. Pepper is continuing the point he made while watering the plant that if Mars really wants or needs something from Achilles, she has to tell him explicitly because of how literal-minded he is. But she won’t because she seems to think the only way to get people to do things is by force, which she has qualms about and also does not work on Achilles, or by bartering and asking, which she won’t do because that would mean admitting that she needs things, and so Achilles is going to keep hurting her feelings. It’s part of the broader issue of Mars feeling the need to perform toughness both to the community at large and to Achilles in specific. Like, if Pepper’s angle here was that The Cat BDSM Is Bad, then he wouldn’t have told Mars that there’s nothing wrong with being weird last page, right?
“Shut up and let me be right” remains crazy rude though lmao
If my boyfriend’s nosy secret sidepiece was lecturing me about emotional honesty and communication when I know they were doing animal stuff with meat on the sly I’d be freaking out too
Oh boy time for me to remain uncomfortable with Pepper’s Therapy Dogging. I’ve said before that he’s way too pushy with Mars, and not only is he being way too pushy again, but he’s also blocking the exit!
I gotta be honest, I really don’t get all the comments about how Pepper needs to just shut up and Mars would figure this all out on her own. Like, yeah, Pepper’s kind of a busybody who doesn’t 100% get it, but right now Mars is in a rut because she’s hit a big wall, and it’s pretty clear she needs SOME kind of advice, someone to talk about this with who at least PARTLY gets it, and none of the other residents fit that bill.
tbf Pepper’s analysis is largely correct and tbh necessary, but also when Mars’ issues are downtream of her anxiety about how she is losing control of how people perceive her, any kind of conversation where Pepper is like “actually I’m watching and perceiving you and so is everyone else and we’re reaching conclusions” is, regardless of what the actual content of those observation and advice is, going to be profoundly upsetting to her because that’s literally what she’s worried about! And it makes sense that people gravitate to her side both bc Pepper is framing himself as an emotional authority, which is grating if you particularly identify with Mars, and because she’s the one with something to lose here. No matter what happens to Mars’ image, self-concept, or relationship with Achilles and Chloe, Pepper isn’t going to be hurt, which makes his irritation when she gets defensive and upset about it short-sighted and kinda rude tbh.
But other than that, yeah!! She clearly wants to talk, that’s why she went upstairs when he offered to talk about it, it’s just that there is no pleasant way to tell someone that they need to radically change their relationship with the concept of vulnerability and shame, and there’s no gracious way to take it.
Besides being out of line yeah I think Pepper’s just wrong here. I don’t think Mars necessarily wants Achilles to change. But more importantly she should be the one to work that out and say so if she feels comfortable with it.
Pepper was doing alright but really should have backed off by now and let what he gave her to think about stew for a bit.
n00000 i am up to date!!!! i found this a couple days ago and i saw it had over 500 pages, so i thought i would take some time to catch up. and maybe the comic would be way more advanced and maybe even finished! i am usually a slow reader!!! but i read the whole thing in like two days!!! aaaa!!!!!!:chloe-XC:
No bad dog!!:pepper-onedge:
I find the “therapist Pepper” jokes really funny, because 8 times out of 10 it’s not inaccurate, but now and again he will slip up and just say the WORST thing a therapist could ever say.
Guy’s about to get pushed down the stairs. Which. Might be bad.
“Guy’s about to get pushed down the stairs.” if true then calling it that either there’s realistic consequences, or it’s just a cartoony injury and Achilles thinks Mar’s is cheating or smth. Either way “He/I fell down the stairs” jokes will ensue
Given Batty’s proclivities as well as how Achilles’ injuries tend to be, especially that eye, I don’t think Pepper is getting out of a fall down the stairs with just a comedy goose egg on his head.
I’m honestly more worried about the *psychological* damage – Pepper’s been having nightmares about falling down stairs ever since seeing the ones at the world’s edge, and has been too scared to confront them since. Having a bad experience now would probably set that trauma in stone for a good while.
yeah it would set him back a few steps
I could kind of see this playing out actually. they went to his room and everything. where his very fuckable bed is. and then there is a window right there where someone could potentially see in. although I feel like pepper might have an easier time clearing things up with achilles, since he can actually talk to him about the stairs, although I don’t think he mentioned his fear to him yet
Chloe’s face reflected in the washing machine when Pepper says “if you want [Achilles] to act different, you have to ask.” is CRAZYYYYYY
Pepper falling down the stairs and getting a realistic injury would be so funny considering all the looney tunes shenanigans Achilles gose through and able to brush off.
:O
It’s not that Mars doesn’t want Achilles to do something different, it’s that Mars doesn’t want to make Achilles change. Pepper is laser focused on this solution of ‘just tell Achilles what you want’, but he’s not framing it in a way that Mars would be receptive to.
Notice how Pepper is blocking the stairs with his body. He’s afraid Mars will storm off on her own and leave him up here.
a lot to be said about being blind to his own debilitating fear for trying to puff up so much on “being right” and most definitely potentially putting him in real soon-to-be danger!
pepper… we warned u about the stairs bro…
Let’s look at this from Mars’ perspective for a moment. Pepper insisted on having a talk and dragged Mars to his attic, only to say some real upsetting stuff to her and have the gall to act indignant when she gets upset about it.
Pepper is not following his own “Good luck with that” advice, cause he needed Mars upstairs.
To be fair, Pepper’s original use of “Good luck with that” was very dismissive and used immediately in the face of someone having a meltdown over an issue he didn’t have a reliable bead on. Pepper means well, and he does get a lot of things right, but he also whiffs things >badly< sometimes.
Which is nice, that he's not infallible. But nicer still is the fact that people are acknowledging it.
It’s truly hard to believe that Mars wound up being the one resident with the healthiest boundaries of them all. She said “I can take you”, it hardly matters that he’s physically blocking the staircase, and restraining her in this conversation. From my perspective Mars is entertaining Pepper, she never asked for anyone else’s point of view, and she was about to go resolve shit her own way.
Same time though, Pepper forcing her to spend a whole day minding Achilles (giving him a chance instead of running off to do nothing) is part of why they got so close, so I think she respects that giving Pepper the time of day is still worth it.
Pepper didn’t imply that Achilles needed to change, though? He correctly observed that Mars is mad at Achilles for doing something but won’t ask him to do anything different. Like, Pepper’s initial advice was that Mars and Achilles don’t have anything to be ashamed of, and Mars rejected it, saying that the problem is Achilles.
On 538 when she’s explaining why she’s upset, she says, “Achilles is weird. It’s just making everything else weird, too. … Everything would be normal if he just knew how to keep his mouth shut.” Pepper isn’t blaming her feelings of shame and her conflict with Chloe on Achilles — Mars is. And Achilles has not done anything wrong, hasn’t broken any promises, because Mars didn’t set any boundaries with him or ask for anything besides money, and she’s pissed at him anyway. Pepper is, if anything, defending Achilles here.
Lmao I want to bonk his head :mars-point::canopener::pepper-onedge:
[sigh]
i’ll get the spray bottle
Pepper your Clair is showing:clair-hey:
First confirmed death in Halo Head is going to be Pepper falling down the staircase like a dumbass
HFHH #546: https://youtu.be/cm9ExcTOhsY
Pepper is 2 for 2 in getting yelled at by tiny cats in his house
Let’s get Peachykeen into Pepper’s house next! Then it’ll be 3 for 3! Unless, somehow, Peachykeen doesn’t yell at all during her visit.
Pepper spends an entire arc getting a basketball out of a choking Peachykeen’s throat.
Well, if anyone’s capable of breaking Peachykeen out of her yell, it’s Pepper (#175)
:pepper-onedge::peachy-menacing:
Could you imagine pepper says something to upset peachykeen and they just completely break character to say “fuck you.”
Would probably be the most jarring thing I could thing of in halo head
Damn. A sudden poker-face, all the manic energy vanishes, and just a really quiet but pointed “Fuck you” could be either very unsettling or kinda heartbreaking. Especially if she just walks off afterwards in a very normal manner.
Thats exactly what i was picturing in my head
peppers’ clair is totally showing at the end here. he is also dangerously close to the edge of that staircase
also also trust the dog to understand positive reinforcement
and I dunno I feel like a kiss might not have been well received by her either? was it cool that he just opened her mouth? kinda feel like he deserved a punch anyway. but in that case I agree that she positively reinforced a thing he shouldn’t do. but I also feel like it’s a lot to just lay on someone when they weren’t really seeking your input. like “hey come here into my inner sanctum so I can tell you some harsh shit.” but then again she also was seeking his input, she did agree to go upstairs and hear him out, although veiled as a favor to him kind of.
it’s forward and he’s not necessarily wrong, but I personally wouldn’t like someone just telling me some shit they thought I needed to hear unless I REALLY trusted them.
*pepper’s
Mars should give Pepper a bit of his own medicine by asking about the stair phobia (assuming she already figured it out)
Oh, Pepper. Pepper, no.
Pepper…
Making a looootttt of assumptions here, pepper…
I just noticed Mars is in the exact same stance as Achilles when he yelled at Pepper way back then. Nice callback.
HFHH#260 for those curious! :pepper-surprise:
Further on this!
When Achilles shouted at Pepper, he was complaining about not having his questions be answered.
Mars is doing the opposite: mad about getting answers to questions she isn’t asking. At least, so we think.
Quite the beautiful pa(i)rallel, I must say.
the stair pattern on the floorboards underneath mars lmao… everything in the room is screaming DANGER and peps isnt listening…
i think she can do violence if she wants to
Haha, it seems Pepper is the type of dog that reads a book or sees a movie and says “this could have been avoided if blah blah blah” instead of enjoying it.
He may be right in this case tho, however…
… not everyone wants to be sorted out… :chloe-XC:
Dog-pilling on the therapy dog and how he should be therapying aside (hehe), there is some valid criticism on Pepper’s behavior. If I were in Mars’s state of mind, I’d probably be a bit too pissed to fully understand any advice being given to me, and probably would’ve appreciated a bit of time to think on my own abt it.
Maybe Pepper’s stirring the pot on purpose to just get the damn ball moving, with how much arm twisting it takes to get anyone to be sincere about anything LMAO Maybe there’s some frustration bubbling up again on his end, wanting for just anyone to fucking listen to the guy that knows more about how people ought to treat each other for once.
Stranglely enough, I’m able to see both sides here with surprising clarity, or perhaps I’ve managed to succinctly project my own interpersonal experiences onto both of them xD
In other words, both sides are valid for their own reasons. Can’t wait to see how this full convo turns out
pepper can you lock the fuck in
Pepper about to get the Achilles treatment from Mars but in the worst way :mars-shout::pepper-surprise:
PEPPPS. She doesn’t WANT achilles to act different. She’s afraid to be perceived as different HERSELF😭
Mars is a queen. She doesn’t want Achilles to change, and she will make sure that he’s protected at all costs. She stayed silent when it was about her, but once Pepper starts making comments about Achilles needing to be changed, she fights back.
Though also, ouch. It’s painful since this is a really perfect allegory about how autistic people are “expected” to conform to being “normal”.
At the same time like, Pepper is getting at something real here. Achilles couldn’t read that Mars would’ve liked him to kiss her, and would probably gladly do that if it was made clear to him. Same about telling Chloe about their business transactions. Mars keeps expecting Achilles to understand subtext that he could not perceive if you gave him a microscope.
At the same time, Mars is in the process of figuring this out herself, she doesn’t need Pepper to tell her how to treat Achilles.
Mars needs to learn how to use words instead of fists. She DOESN’T know how to treat Achilles – she really does need Pepper’s help here.
Except, she stumbled like twice on this? And she tried giving him an explanation back at Claire’s in #513. I don’t think this is something she’s incapable of figuring out herself, it’ll just take some trial and error.
And with his help hopefully there’ll be less error.
OOOOOO PEPPER YOU’RE…. CORRECT BUT MARS IS GONNA DECK YOU LMAO
Oh wow, there’s a lot to unpack here.
1. “What I’m obviously right about” is INSANE work. Especially since he doesn’t seem to realize that Mars doesn’t actually WANT Achilles to act different. Or at least, that seems to be the common consensus. Though she does at the very least seem to want him to be less discreet.
2. I’d say Pepper needs to do a better job listening, but Mars isn’t exactly giving him much to listen TO, and Mars IS right that he’s just forcing this therapy session upon her, so… Hm… Not exactly any easy answers here. Speaking from experience, I know that the two forces of “You’re not listening to me, but also I don’t want to talk to you” and “I’m obviously right, so let me fix your easy problem” meeting is quite unpleasant to be a part of.
3. Pepper should just shut up and let Mars stuff her face in his chest. That will fix EVERYTHING. Trust. :pepper-cutesy:
I kind of disagree on point two. Pepper didn’t force Mars to talk; the only lie he told was why he wanted to have this conversation upstairs, which she immediately saw through, called him out, and started to discuss it anyway. Mars has repeatedly gone to Pepper for advice, but her defensiveness and fear of seeming vulnerable means she can’t ask for anything directly, which is why she only engages with Pepper when it’s framed transactionally (see when they talked after Peachy knocked down the tree) and why she’s unwilling to just ask Achilles to kiss her or keep things secret. Notice she only really agreed to talk when she clocked that Pepper needed her to go upstairs and that she’d be doing him a favor as well. If she didn’t want to talk, she wouldn’t have.
I also disagree with one because I think everyone is focusing on the kiss/teeth remark instead of the broader argument. Pepper is continuing the point he made while watering the plant that if Mars really wants or needs something from Achilles, she has to tell him explicitly because of how literal-minded he is. But she won’t because she seems to think the only way to get people to do things is by force, which she has qualms about and also does not work on Achilles, or by bartering and asking, which she won’t do because that would mean admitting that she needs things, and so Achilles is going to keep hurting her feelings. It’s part of the broader issue of Mars feeling the need to perform toughness both to the community at large and to Achilles in specific. Like, if Pepper’s angle here was that The Cat BDSM Is Bad, then he wouldn’t have told Mars that there’s nothing wrong with being weird last page, right?
“Shut up and let me be right” remains crazy rude though lmao
THATS RIGHT MARS! STAND UP FOR YOUR LITTLE FREAK BF!!
Funny time to remember that Mars a) knows that Pepper and Achilles have a secret and b) she thinks it’s that they fuck
That bed WOULD fit three, just sayin…
If my boyfriend’s nosy secret sidepiece was lecturing me about emotional honesty and communication when I know they were doing animal stuff with meat on the sly I’d be freaking out too
He’s getting cocky! Kick his ass!
Oh boy time for me to remain uncomfortable with Pepper’s Therapy Dogging. I’ve said before that he’s way too pushy with Mars, and not only is he being way too pushy again, but he’s also blocking the exit!
Bad dog :pepper-surprise:
I gotta be honest, I really don’t get all the comments about how Pepper needs to just shut up and Mars would figure this all out on her own. Like, yeah, Pepper’s kind of a busybody who doesn’t 100% get it, but right now Mars is in a rut because she’s hit a big wall, and it’s pretty clear she needs SOME kind of advice, someone to talk about this with who at least PARTLY gets it, and none of the other residents fit that bill.
tbf Pepper’s analysis is largely correct and tbh necessary, but also when Mars’ issues are downtream of her anxiety about how she is losing control of how people perceive her, any kind of conversation where Pepper is like “actually I’m watching and perceiving you and so is everyone else and we’re reaching conclusions” is, regardless of what the actual content of those observation and advice is, going to be profoundly upsetting to her because that’s literally what she’s worried about! And it makes sense that people gravitate to her side both bc Pepper is framing himself as an emotional authority, which is grating if you particularly identify with Mars, and because she’s the one with something to lose here. No matter what happens to Mars’ image, self-concept, or relationship with Achilles and Chloe, Pepper isn’t going to be hurt, which makes his irritation when she gets defensive and upset about it short-sighted and kinda rude tbh.
But other than that, yeah!! She clearly wants to talk, that’s why she went upstairs when he offered to talk about it, it’s just that there is no pleasant way to tell someone that they need to radically change their relationship with the concept of vulnerability and shame, and there’s no gracious way to take it.
(this was supposed to be a reply to dungeonmaster11 but whatever lmao)
Besides being out of line yeah I think Pepper’s just wrong here. I don’t think Mars necessarily wants Achilles to change. But more importantly she should be the one to work that out and say so if she feels comfortable with it.
Pepper was doing alright but really should have backed off by now and let what he gave her to think about stew for a bit.
n00000 i am up to date!!!! i found this a couple days ago and i saw it had over 500 pages, so i thought i would take some time to catch up. and maybe the comic would be way more advanced and maybe even finished! i am usually a slow reader!!! but i read the whole thing in like two days!!! aaaa!!!!!!:chloe-XC: