The tried an true method of being kind of a dick about it
I understand that dealing with Achilles is frustrating and he’s been a therapy animal for the past few days
but also he HAS been telling Achilles how to feel about certain things relating to the super secret and said activities meant to keep the secret secret
That cute little tug is killing me :peachy-menacing:
I get where pepper is coming from, he’s overextended and I wish he could’ve recharged before having this conversation. I wish him luck, the comments are about to beat his ass lmfao, RIP.
I also get where Achilles is at. I feel like the best night for both of them would be to just sit together in silence tbh.
Achilles *was* paying to get beat up, and he got that. And then just started quietly hoping for it to be as personal to Mars as it became to him (and it started to be, but it’s not like they ever talked that out…!)
If you want your relationship with someone to change, you have to actually bring it up with them, little guy, otherwise it’s on you if it doesn’t magically work out by itself. And you can’t expect a funny dog to shoulder All the work of figuring out what you yourself want out of life
But Mars wasn’t doing it for money, and Pepper knows it. And Mars is super important to Achilles, and Pepper knows it.
It feels like Pepper is taking something out on Achilles here. Maybe resentment with how Achilles just gets to think of his own needs, while Pepper needs to consider others?
tbf, not only is Achilles super selfish like you say (to a degree that Pepper doesn’t even know; like, Achilles is hiding the Ares picture from him right now!) but also this conflict in particular literally ruined his life, and Achilles doesn’t seem to care. Even without resentment, eventually basic pattern recognition kicks in.
I wouldn’t call it selfish to ‘hide’ the picture. I don’t think it’s even occurred to him to show it to Pepper, EVM only suggested to show it to Clair and Achilles has been trying real hard not to think ever since. Achilles isn’t consciously aware that he could be looking out for Pepper more. Because of how Achilles deals with his problems, he is consciously aware of very little.
I’ll grant that perhaps selfish is too strong a word for not showing Pepper the picture, but I do think that it, along with everything else Achilles does, dovetails with the critique that both Pepper and brain Achiiles had that he runs on pure id and only thinks about his own desires. Him only considering the Ares picture in terms of how it made him uncomfortable and not Pepper is part of that, and I would call that, if not selfish, than at least self-something. It didn’t even occur to Achilles to think about Pepper and how that picture could affect him. He thought about what he wanted. The fact that it was automatic and thoughtless arguably makes it more so.
How much autonomy Achilles has in how he processes information and thinks about stuff is imo ambiguous, but does whether he does it on purpose or not have any bearing on my point about how it affects Pepper and his eagerness to get involved in Achilles’ drama? Like, if Pepper found out that Achilles has that and said nothing to anyone, surely that would make him want to criticize Achilles this way *more*, right?
I imagine Pepper would be relieved that Achilles didn’t talk about it to Mars or Clair. But being cautious with sensitive information did not inform that decision in the least.
I think you could say at the least that it’s wildly irresponsible to just only think about your own needs like Achilles is doing. At the same time, for someone like Achilles, for whom using his brains to figure out what other people mean and feel is generally a fruitless endeavor, the strategy of just forgoing reflection altogether makes some sense.
i think it’s good if achiles starts thinking on his own. pepper shouldnt have to be the Delegater for all this .. Hopefully this makes them actually Talk. To eachother. and not Pepper for the 1000th time… frankly the way achiles always gets what he wants IS frustrating. so i am glad.Thank you pepper. Thank you
Pepper doesn’t NEED to consider others. He wants to. Achilles isn’t a singular selfish being, it is more part of the fact he lacks fine awareness of others feelings. When he does manage to realise or intuit they are upset or need something, he is given to pursuing that automatically.
Pepper is absolutely taking out his frustrations on someone he knows won’t push back, and it’s especially galling because of all the characters Pepper seems the most emotionally intelligent. He should be able to see that Achilles is >trying< here, and was on the verge of articulating or realising something, but instead of letting that bear fruit (and potentially progress or 'park' the conversation), he opted to interrupt in a specifically tactless and unproductive manner. Unproductive for his stated desire of having his own space, unproductive for supporting his supposed 'friend', worth only momentary catharsis at the cost of prolonging or souring something he already doesn't like.
He gets to have feelings, limits, etc. That's all valid. But it's the "my shit doesn't stink" attitude from the person who has emotional intelligence and awareness that gets me. Of all the people to lash out at, and in this manner. He knows the productive way to handle or postpone this, and he consciously opted not to take it. A slip in tone is understandable. Grouching or impatience is understandable. But this, as noted, is more like lashing out from resentment.
And again, that's fine too. But I think it makes my skin crawl at the prospect he might still be perceived or portrayed as comparatively faultless while there are other consensus on stuff like 'Clair is a selfish manipulator'. The meta shouldn't affect my view of this so much, but I can't help it as something has to fill in the gaps while waiting to be fed…
People have been making digs at Pepper for pressuring Achilles to lie via omission before this or the whole the whole bringing Mars upstairs thing happened. I think there’s less of a consensus than you’re feel there is.
As a patented Pepper defender™, I am not looking forward to people lumping interactions like these in with ones where Pepper is merely dishonest or manipulative, but such is the burden of discussing a comic that has flawed characters.
Hey, my post was a wall of text, I can’t criticise anything!
But yeah I know what you mean. Like I said I think a big part of it might be the (admittedly short) wait between comics and exposure to other commenters. The meta side influencing perception. In my case it is just that I have a massive dislike of any ‘karma houdini’ elements, or where popular characters get more of a free pass whereas others get the book thrown at them. In the end, the characters are flawed and that’s really what works here. Batty has handled the flow of everything well, and the “traumedy” works because of the characters idiosyncrasies, but also because even at their worst they are still good people. I’m glad there are no genuine villains here, but in a way that makes me more prone to want to throw something at my monitor and yell “OH COME ON!!!” when the idiot babies keep doing the thing.
Pepper just irks me because of all the characters he feels like he should ‘know better’, and when he takes liberties it feels more like a conscious choice on his part and less of a ‘they don’t know how much affect that has’.
Don’t mind me, I’m just over here stomping my feet and grumbling. My real objection is a fear of him slipping into the “can do no wrong” category. Though our batshaped caretaker has been good at balancing out the drama so far!
Ah, damn. Seems the website ate my reply. There was another bunch of text there, but long story short is : Don’t worry, I hit you with a wall of text so I’m in no position to complain about tiny hiccups in a comment section, haha.
The characters are generally good guys and our grumbles are all the complaints of people waiting to be fed, wanting a happy ending when the idiot babies need to fuck up a bunch to get there. I just let the meta of comment sections irk me, and Pepper of all characters should ‘know better’. Rather than trying to rationalise it, in future I will stick to the more constructive method of throwing something at you and yelling “[] did nothing wrong!”
*sage nod*
Pepper’s definitely projecting, bit of a hypocrite talking about someone wanting stuff but at least he’s conscionable enough to drop his own wants and needs for others when it matters. Pepper considers others feelings far more than Achilles I’d argue, even if he’s just biding his time until he can probe for questions again. Never thought I’d defend Pepper, he’s at the top of my shit list lol
Well, yeah, that’s the point. Pepper considers others’ feelings far more than Achilles because Achilles is largely unable. And because he is unable, Achilles ‘gets’ to live on pure id, to use EVM’s words. If you’re putting others’ needs ahead of your own a lot, I think it’d be easy to resent someone else who just can’t do that and just runs around chasing his own wants because of it.
Oh, no. Just outright saying that Mars has feelings for him would be bad. It’s just that Pepper knows it’s not this simple, and yet he’s speaking authoritatively like it is. It’s a dishonesty that’s potentially harmful to Achilles, in that it might worsen his relationship with Mars.
I know Achilles isn’t great with people, but at this point he’s actively avoiding addressing his problems (in the only way his very literal brain knows how to do it, by literally avoiding addressing part of himself, haha). Pepper can’t be the one to self-regulate FOR him
(Honestly, this dooooes have me reflecting more on Achilles’ behavior…Sure, he hasn’t known any better, but he HAS basically been going around forcing his kink on others since he realized he had it. I mean, if he wasn’t a cute catboy it’d be kinda :pepper-surprise: y’know? )
low-key, I only started liking achilles when people kept saying how cute he is, then he started to grow on me. Before that though I really didn’t like him and how he was acting, I called him lil bastard man :achilles-cutesy:
This probably won’t happen, but the dream is for Pepper to finish cooking and reveal that he made a single serving and either kick Achilles out or eat in front of him.
I was on pepper’s side when I thought this was ‘helping, being rude about it’. But right now it seems he invited Achilles into the house just to give him shit. Pepper is having a bad time, I doubt Achilles is having a good one, everybody loses.
what does pepper want? fellow mentioned that pepper here might be resenting that achilles just gets to think of his own needs while pepper has to think of everyone else’s. I think that’s a good point. pepper has spent most of his time with others as a sounding board for them. he’s at least partially brought it on himself too, bc of his own pushiness into people’s problems. but sometimes he does that bc he can’t really talk to anyone about his own thoughts; he’ll probe about their problems as an avenue to try and get help with his own (like with chloe he did this, with mars he did this). achilles is one of the only people pepper COULD talk to about his problems, but achilles is too willfully braindead to help him. considering how much it is stressing pepper out on the reg, and how little negative effect it’s had on achilles, I think it kind of puts in perspective pepper’s reaction here.
love that regardless of his mood, pepper’s insight is still devastating.
You heard the man, Achilles. You should be thinking for yourself. So, go back to questioning that thing he told you to stop thinking about / questioning. \:3/
Pepper really laying on the truth hard. Achilles has always been one who is pushed around, and that’s exactly what he wants. When he finally realizes he doesn’t know exactly what he wants anymore, he starts wandering. Sometimes he wanders to places unknown, and sometimes, he drifts to those who are superior to him to make decisions for him. He doesn’t want things to be hard, so he does what he can to avoid difficult decisions. But he’s getting to the point where he can no longer able escape these hard decisions as his mind begins to fight against himself.
It’s a pretty good foil of Clair’s own avoidance issues. Both of them are avoiding putting effort into thinking about these things, instead busying themselves into doing other activities. The methods may be different (Clair overworking for Chloe, Achilles being overworked by Mars), but unlike Clair, Achilles is seeking help when things get really hard, which in itself is similar to Chloe. Especially since both went to Pepper specifically.
The only thing that makes Achilles stand out is that when he has a problem, he makes it known. With Mars, he was honest when he said “I don’t want to think”. And with Pepper, he’s more honest, mentioning the “guy in his head”. He’s the most open of Halo Head with his feelings and desires.
I can’t say I feel bad at all for Achilles, this has been a long time coming and even if Pepper’s not being very tactful, Achilles is very self-serving, he needs to hear it. The rest of the residents aren’t any better but I still can’t forgive that time he scared Mars into thinking he’d disappeared. She had tears in her eyes, man, he would’ve seen that. You’d think he’d pause for a second to notice that and at least wonder why. But then he’s actively trying not to be reflective, maybe that’s the point of his character, idk.
I don’t think Pepper’s been sleeping in his bed. Something something make your bed? Pepper needs to take up woodworking and make himself a new bed, I think.
I think Pepper was built a little too normal and that’s going to end up driving him crazy. Halo Head is an abnormal place. I don’t think he’s coping with that too well lately.
it makes me sad seeing them like this, but coming back to page again, like what i said before, i definitely feel like they both had this coming. like they set it up themselves, dominoes slowing knocking down in the background. i remember when their boys night was first being released and it was certainly Something. but the vibe is all different now.. expected. but painful all the way :pepper-scruffy:
I’ve been thinking more on it, and I think Achilles isn’t quite innocent.
We’ve seen that Achilles makes an active choice to only chase his own needs. The way he hurt Mars back then, or the way he’s putting on Pepper in the middle night right now is as much a consequence of his decision to shut his brain of as any hurt feelings here are a consequence of Pepper’s choice to lash out at Achilles. Just because he’s oblivious while he’s doing it doesn’t mean Achilles didn’t have agency in the matter.
i’m a little put out seeing it be said that Achilles is unable to be considerate of other people’s needs. that’s robbing him of his agency and responsibility. he’s actively neglecting to reflect on the picture. and like, sure, he has a more difficult time interpreting and sorting out information, but that doesn’t mean he can’t do it at all. and he right now is especially unwilling to be challenged by anything. it must be really stressing him out but his avoidance is only going to make it more difficult.
meanwhile, Pepper has set a precedent for being everyone’s shoulder to cry on, even actively pushing for it. he’s run himself dry and is resentful that Achilles wants to rely on him. he really ought to have said no to Achilles, but i’m getting the sense he doesn’t feel like he can because none of these dinks ever talk to each other lol. plus, he clearly isn’t confident that Mars and Achilles will continue to be cooperative enough to keep Clair from finding out anything incriminating. it’s been hard for him to relax. bro really needs a break, and needs to learn that he can let himself have one
and he needs to let himself be vulnerable, because he’s not going to feel supported until he takes that leap
Yeah, it’s an interesting little regression for Pepper. We’ve seen Pepper explicitly ask for help four times, I believe? He asked Achilles to stay after the stairs, he asked Chloe to help him figure out Clair and then to pass on a few messages, and he (barely) asked Mars to help him watch out for Achilles. The most emblematic one is where he was scared to sleep alone after the stairs; he initially tried to get Achilles to stay by making shit up and saying that it’s for Achilles’ own good, and only when Achilles shuts it down and makes it clear Pepper can’t make him stay does he break down and actually ask for him to stay. He tries the same thing with Mars so she’ll help him up the stairs, who also sees through it but senses the hypocrisy. Pepper is uncomfortable with the role of being the person who needs to be helped, and so he tries to make it so he’s the one doing the other person the favor or frame it as like a collective good. With Achilles that night, when push came to shove, he could be honest. Couldn’t with Mars, and he can’t do it with Achilles now. He’s grown more isolated. We’re on a downswing.
as much as i really like pepper, i’m admittedly intrigued by the idea of him screwing up in his own relationships the way he so easily observes the rest of them doing. easy to have all the answers when you’re a third party. maybe he’s not as mature as he thinks he is? we’ll see
Yeah, to me that’s sort of Halo Head’s big thing with its “characters bouncing off each other” plot! Most of the characters’ have traits that in a vacuum we could argue are completely positive, but in context of each other cause conflict. Clair’s love for and genuine concern for her [insert whatever word you want to use for her complicated relationship with Chloe] is a virtue, but the same trait that motivates her to make Chloe lemonade and bandage her beestings drives her to try to confiscate that fucking book. Achilles is a very innocent person who finds joy and beauty in places no one else thinks to look, and that innocent drive for pleasure and to see the good in people simultaneously leads to him refusing to think about uncomfortable shit. Et cetera et cetera. These aren’t really contradictory or even different traits, but the same traits expressed in varyingly healthy ways and contexts. Their vices and virtues are intertwined, which is why the use of Chloe and Clair’s angel-devil motif is very cool and interesting. Good traits and bad traits in Halo Head are a matter of perspective and timing, which goes well with the fact that the plot is these sympathetic characters acting out their neuroses on each other. Yin yang and all that.
Pepper isn’t immune to this pattern, and so the same traits that make him a good person (attentive, wants to take care of people, wants to make sense out of the world) seed his own downfall by making him manipulative and struggle to ask for help or address his obvious conflict with Achilles before we got here, as he takes more and more problems onto himself until he freaks. It’s a theme.
(and if you let me get psychoanalytic with the rest of the audience, that’s probably why even though the stakes of most of the character conflicts, like Clair calling Chloe a liar or Pepper being rude in a single conversation, tge audience stays very invested and defends or attacks characters relatively aggressively, because it’s very easy to recognize the virtue in each character’s vice. But that’s a much weaker argument lol)
After last comics comment section and I’m seeing it a lil here, I think I need everyone to back the fuck up from their computer and take a walk honestly.
Y’all gotta remember this is a comic and these people aren’t real for one thing.
It’s great y’all love these characters and can relate to them and are invested but I think y’all are getting lost in the sauce way too much at the moment.
I get the vibe some of you are seeing these characters get criticised and are taking it *personally* because you relate to them, and I need you to remember NO ONE here actually knows who you are or what you’re about, so calm down.
The reason we love halo heads writing and are invested so much is because the writing feels real as fuck.
You can talk about what the characters should be doing, should of done, what they should get up to in the future to avoid these things, but remember it is easier to say it than it is ever to do it, especially when you’re in it full force.
These characters are gonna fuck up, they’ll be “dicks”, it won’t be fixed instantly.
This comic isn’t about whipping up a problem and solving it immediately, it’s about being real as fuck and having these problems and the journey in dealing with them.
Some of them might never get sorted out! You’re gonna have to deal with that!
Seriously, take a step away from the computer and go for a walk or something and take like 10mins to really think before you post comments from now on is my advice.
Let’s not forget that Pepper has had like 4 hours of sleep in the past week. I dislike his manipulative ways, but here his people pleasing really got the best of him and I’m empathizing with to such a degree.. go off boi :chloe-onice:
Oof. Hard shit. Pepper needs to take a deep breath. He’s exhibiting behavior akin to getting angry at someone who’s autistic. Get too angry, and Achilles will shut him out. Go too soft, and Achilles (as well as others) will continue to use Pepper as a welcome mat.
Pepper needs to set boundaries. He’s the “too nice” type that always snaps at times when pushed too hard.
Achilles needs to understand boundaries, and set his own as well. He just needs to sit and actually be introspective.
I’m autistic, so I relate more with Achilles, but I also understand I can be a bit much at times. I’ve learned that and am doing my best with that. Achilles needs to do the same.
Pepper is out of line here. There’s something *really* frustrating about someone refusing to set a boundary/voice discomfort acting like they’re being taken advantage of when the other person would back off immediately if they just spoke up.
You don’t get to lecture someone about consent and not apply those same concepts to yourself.
Pepper’s gone out of his way to establish himself as a confidant and involve himself in other’s business. “For some reason, you want me to be the one to tell you”–because you’ve set that precedent very insistently. Because you just invited him into your house and specifically prompted him to talk about his problems.
Which is secretly not okay, but instead of speaking up, he’s just harboring resentment and making it out like Achilles is emotionally forcing himself on him, even though he could choose to communicate his emotional unavailability at the moment or pause the conversation at any time.
It always feels so nasty to learn after the fact that you hurt someone without meaning to, and it especially sucks when it could have been 100% avoided with a little communication.
(Disclaimer: I actually really like Pepper’s character and I’m not saying this to belittle him or his fans here!!)
Pepper just put some pepper on this convo.
AKA
Pepper ain’t having any of Achilles’ malarky tonight.
Spectacular wording, couldn’t have put it any better myself 😆
The tried an true method of being kind of a dick about it
I understand that dealing with Achilles is frustrating and he’s been a therapy animal for the past few days
but also he HAS been telling Achilles how to feel about certain things relating to the super secret and said activities meant to keep the secret secret
Jeez Pep, ease up on him. Guy just found out the woman he was paying to beat him up was only doing it for the money😔
OUGHH??🥺 I just noticed the sleeve tug:hearts:
sobbing
He’s not being gentle but he has a point, he needs to figure things out.
Nooo I thought this was going to be boys night not boys fight :clair-despair:
With #600 coming up and this conversation going the way it is, I gotta feeling something really bad is gonna go down.
Probably Achilles is just gonna go back downstairs since no one seems to want him around upstairs
Hello from DickHead
This made me burst out laughing thank you
BAHAHAHA but yeah.
This feels like love. Tough love, but still coming from the heart ♡
Chloe came over the other night and Pepper’s question was “what do you need”
Achilles came over to complain about his wants
I can definitely relate to Pepper’s patience running out here
This is the Mars upstairs conversation all over again. Pepper talking over someone else. Very Clair coded of him imo.
I am going feral over that second panel. :hearts:
That cute little tug is killing me :peachy-menacing:
I get where pepper is coming from, he’s overextended and I wish he could’ve recharged before having this conversation. I wish him luck, the comments are about to beat his ass lmfao, RIP.
I also get where Achilles is at. I feel like the best night for both of them would be to just sit together in silence tbh.
Thirst for Pepper slowly being cured
Never :pepper-cutesy:
Pepper isn’t wrong, is the thing
Achilles *was* paying to get beat up, and he got that. And then just started quietly hoping for it to be as personal to Mars as it became to him (and it started to be, but it’s not like they ever talked that out…!)
If you want your relationship with someone to change, you have to actually bring it up with them, little guy, otherwise it’s on you if it doesn’t magically work out by itself. And you can’t expect a funny dog to shoulder All the work of figuring out what you yourself want out of life
But Mars wasn’t doing it for money, and Pepper knows it. And Mars is super important to Achilles, and Pepper knows it.
It feels like Pepper is taking something out on Achilles here. Maybe resentment with how Achilles just gets to think of his own needs, while Pepper needs to consider others?
tbf, not only is Achilles super selfish like you say (to a degree that Pepper doesn’t even know; like, Achilles is hiding the Ares picture from him right now!) but also this conflict in particular literally ruined his life, and Achilles doesn’t seem to care. Even without resentment, eventually basic pattern recognition kicks in.
I wouldn’t call it selfish to ‘hide’ the picture. I don’t think it’s even occurred to him to show it to Pepper, EVM only suggested to show it to Clair and Achilles has been trying real hard not to think ever since. Achilles isn’t consciously aware that he could be looking out for Pepper more. Because of how Achilles deals with his problems, he is consciously aware of very little.
I’ll grant that perhaps selfish is too strong a word for not showing Pepper the picture, but I do think that it, along with everything else Achilles does, dovetails with the critique that both Pepper and brain Achiiles had that he runs on pure id and only thinks about his own desires. Him only considering the Ares picture in terms of how it made him uncomfortable and not Pepper is part of that, and I would call that, if not selfish, than at least self-something. It didn’t even occur to Achilles to think about Pepper and how that picture could affect him. He thought about what he wanted. The fact that it was automatic and thoughtless arguably makes it more so.
How much autonomy Achilles has in how he processes information and thinks about stuff is imo ambiguous, but does whether he does it on purpose or not have any bearing on my point about how it affects Pepper and his eagerness to get involved in Achilles’ drama? Like, if Pepper found out that Achilles has that and said nothing to anyone, surely that would make him want to criticize Achilles this way *more*, right?
I imagine Pepper would be relieved that Achilles didn’t talk about it to Mars or Clair. But being cautious with sensitive information did not inform that decision in the least.
I think you could say at the least that it’s wildly irresponsible to just only think about your own needs like Achilles is doing. At the same time, for someone like Achilles, for whom using his brains to figure out what other people mean and feel is generally a fruitless endeavor, the strategy of just forgoing reflection altogether makes some sense.
yo pepper resenting achilles is a great point btw
i think it’s good if achiles starts thinking on his own. pepper shouldnt have to be the Delegater for all this .. Hopefully this makes them actually Talk. To eachother. and not Pepper for the 1000th time… frankly the way achiles always gets what he wants IS frustrating. so i am glad.Thank you pepper. Thank you
Pepper doesn’t NEED to consider others. He wants to. Achilles isn’t a singular selfish being, it is more part of the fact he lacks fine awareness of others feelings. When he does manage to realise or intuit they are upset or need something, he is given to pursuing that automatically.
Pepper is absolutely taking out his frustrations on someone he knows won’t push back, and it’s especially galling because of all the characters Pepper seems the most emotionally intelligent. He should be able to see that Achilles is >trying< here, and was on the verge of articulating or realising something, but instead of letting that bear fruit (and potentially progress or 'park' the conversation), he opted to interrupt in a specifically tactless and unproductive manner. Unproductive for his stated desire of having his own space, unproductive for supporting his supposed 'friend', worth only momentary catharsis at the cost of prolonging or souring something he already doesn't like.
He gets to have feelings, limits, etc. That's all valid. But it's the "my shit doesn't stink" attitude from the person who has emotional intelligence and awareness that gets me. Of all the people to lash out at, and in this manner. He knows the productive way to handle or postpone this, and he consciously opted not to take it. A slip in tone is understandable. Grouching or impatience is understandable. But this, as noted, is more like lashing out from resentment.
And again, that's fine too. But I think it makes my skin crawl at the prospect he might still be perceived or portrayed as comparatively faultless while there are other consensus on stuff like 'Clair is a selfish manipulator'. The meta shouldn't affect my view of this so much, but I can't help it as something has to fill in the gaps while waiting to be fed…
People have been making digs at Pepper for pressuring Achilles to lie via omission before this or the whole the whole bringing Mars upstairs thing happened. I think there’s less of a consensus than you’re feel there is.
As a patented Pepper defender™, I am not looking forward to people lumping interactions like these in with ones where Pepper is merely dishonest or manipulative, but such is the burden of discussing a comic that has flawed characters.
(Oh jeez this comment is a grammatical train wreck I am sorry to have subject you all to it.)
Hey, my post was a wall of text, I can’t criticise anything!
But yeah I know what you mean. Like I said I think a big part of it might be the (admittedly short) wait between comics and exposure to other commenters. The meta side influencing perception. In my case it is just that I have a massive dislike of any ‘karma houdini’ elements, or where popular characters get more of a free pass whereas others get the book thrown at them. In the end, the characters are flawed and that’s really what works here. Batty has handled the flow of everything well, and the “traumedy” works because of the characters idiosyncrasies, but also because even at their worst they are still good people. I’m glad there are no genuine villains here, but in a way that makes me more prone to want to throw something at my monitor and yell “OH COME ON!!!” when the idiot babies keep doing the thing.
Pepper just irks me because of all the characters he feels like he should ‘know better’, and when he takes liberties it feels more like a conscious choice on his part and less of a ‘they don’t know how much affect that has’.
Don’t mind me, I’m just over here stomping my feet and grumbling. My real objection is a fear of him slipping into the “can do no wrong” category. Though our batshaped caretaker has been good at balancing out the drama so far!
Ah, damn. Seems the website ate my reply. There was another bunch of text there, but long story short is : Don’t worry, I hit you with a wall of text so I’m in no position to complain about tiny hiccups in a comment section, haha.
The characters are generally good guys and our grumbles are all the complaints of people waiting to be fed, wanting a happy ending when the idiot babies need to fuck up a bunch to get there. I just let the meta of comment sections irk me, and Pepper of all characters should ‘know better’. Rather than trying to rationalise it, in future I will stick to the more constructive method of throwing something at you and yelling “[] did nothing wrong!”
*sage nod*
Pepper’s definitely projecting, bit of a hypocrite talking about someone wanting stuff but at least he’s conscionable enough to drop his own wants and needs for others when it matters. Pepper considers others feelings far more than Achilles I’d argue, even if he’s just biding his time until he can probe for questions again. Never thought I’d defend Pepper, he’s at the top of my shit list lol
Well, yeah, that’s the point. Pepper considers others’ feelings far more than Achilles because Achilles is largely unable. And because he is unable, Achilles ‘gets’ to live on pure id, to use EVM’s words. If you’re putting others’ needs ahead of your own a lot, I think it’d be easy to resent someone else who just can’t do that and just runs around chasing his own wants because of it.
He knows it, but tbh it would be shitty of him to out Mars’s feelings without her permission! (if that’s what you’re implying)
Oh, no. Just outright saying that Mars has feelings for him would be bad. It’s just that Pepper knows it’s not this simple, and yet he’s speaking authoritatively like it is. It’s a dishonesty that’s potentially harmful to Achilles, in that it might worsen his relationship with Mars.
I mean, yeah….
I know Achilles isn’t great with people, but at this point he’s actively avoiding addressing his problems (in the only way his very literal brain knows how to do it, by literally avoiding addressing part of himself, haha). Pepper can’t be the one to self-regulate FOR him
(Honestly, this dooooes have me reflecting more on Achilles’ behavior…Sure, he hasn’t known any better, but he HAS basically been going around forcing his kink on others since he realized he had it. I mean, if he wasn’t a cute catboy it’d be kinda :pepper-surprise: y’know? )
low-key, I only started liking achilles when people kept saying how cute he is, then he started to grow on me. Before that though I really didn’t like him and how he was acting, I called him lil bastard man :achilles-cutesy:
GET HIS ASS, PEPPER.
READ HIM FOR FILTH.
Time for everyone to hate Pepper for not being 100% selfless again I suppose 😏
I love when Pepper loses his temper so much. Yes bitch stir the pot
This probably won’t happen, but the dream is for Pepper to finish cooking and reveal that he made a single serving and either kick Achilles out or eat in front of him.
I was on pepper’s side when I thought this was ‘helping, being rude about it’. But right now it seems he invited Achilles into the house just to give him shit. Pepper is having a bad time, I doubt Achilles is having a good one, everybody loses.
his name is Pepper because he brings the heat to the conflicts on Halo Head :soup:
Pepper where are you going with this
damn pepper!
what does pepper want? fellow mentioned that pepper here might be resenting that achilles just gets to think of his own needs while pepper has to think of everyone else’s. I think that’s a good point. pepper has spent most of his time with others as a sounding board for them. he’s at least partially brought it on himself too, bc of his own pushiness into people’s problems. but sometimes he does that bc he can’t really talk to anyone about his own thoughts; he’ll probe about their problems as an avenue to try and get help with his own (like with chloe he did this, with mars he did this). achilles is one of the only people pepper COULD talk to about his problems, but achilles is too willfully braindead to help him. considering how much it is stressing pepper out on the reg, and how little negative effect it’s had on achilles, I think it kind of puts in perspective pepper’s reaction here.
love that regardless of his mood, pepper’s insight is still devastating.
You heard the man, Achilles. You should be thinking for yourself. So, go back to questioning that thing he told you to stop thinking about / questioning. \:3/
Pepper really laying on the truth hard. Achilles has always been one who is pushed around, and that’s exactly what he wants. When he finally realizes he doesn’t know exactly what he wants anymore, he starts wandering. Sometimes he wanders to places unknown, and sometimes, he drifts to those who are superior to him to make decisions for him. He doesn’t want things to be hard, so he does what he can to avoid difficult decisions. But he’s getting to the point where he can no longer able escape these hard decisions as his mind begins to fight against himself.
It’s a pretty good foil of Clair’s own avoidance issues. Both of them are avoiding putting effort into thinking about these things, instead busying themselves into doing other activities. The methods may be different (Clair overworking for Chloe, Achilles being overworked by Mars), but unlike Clair, Achilles is seeking help when things get really hard, which in itself is similar to Chloe. Especially since both went to Pepper specifically.
The only thing that makes Achilles stand out is that when he has a problem, he makes it known. With Mars, he was honest when he said “I don’t want to think”. And with Pepper, he’s more honest, mentioning the “guy in his head”. He’s the most open of Halo Head with his feelings and desires.
I can’t say I feel bad at all for Achilles, this has been a long time coming and even if Pepper’s not being very tactful, Achilles is very self-serving, he needs to hear it. The rest of the residents aren’t any better but I still can’t forgive that time he scared Mars into thinking he’d disappeared. She had tears in her eyes, man, he would’ve seen that. You’d think he’d pause for a second to notice that and at least wonder why. But then he’s actively trying not to be reflective, maybe that’s the point of his character, idk.
i feel like both of them kind of had this coming. something something sleep in your bed?
I don’t think Pepper’s been sleeping in his bed. Something something make your bed? Pepper needs to take up woodworking and make himself a new bed, I think.
Everyone’s arguing about Pepper for some reason, I was just thinking it’s cute when he’s all pissy :batty-long:
Pepper is still best dog :pepper-cutesy:
I think Pepper was built a little too normal and that’s going to end up driving him crazy. Halo Head is an abnormal place. I don’t think he’s coping with that too well lately.
it makes me sad seeing them like this, but coming back to page again, like what i said before, i definitely feel like they both had this coming. like they set it up themselves, dominoes slowing knocking down in the background. i remember when their boys night was first being released and it was certainly Something. but the vibe is all different now.. expected. but painful all the way :pepper-scruffy:
Honestly I’m with Pepper here, I know what his situation feels like. :pepper-scruffy:
I’ve been thinking more on it, and I think Achilles isn’t quite innocent.
We’ve seen that Achilles makes an active choice to only chase his own needs. The way he hurt Mars back then, or the way he’s putting on Pepper in the middle night right now is as much a consequence of his decision to shut his brain of as any hurt feelings here are a consequence of Pepper’s choice to lash out at Achilles. Just because he’s oblivious while he’s doing it doesn’t mean Achilles didn’t have agency in the matter.
i’m a little put out seeing it be said that Achilles is unable to be considerate of other people’s needs. that’s robbing him of his agency and responsibility. he’s actively neglecting to reflect on the picture. and like, sure, he has a more difficult time interpreting and sorting out information, but that doesn’t mean he can’t do it at all. and he right now is especially unwilling to be challenged by anything. it must be really stressing him out but his avoidance is only going to make it more difficult.
meanwhile, Pepper has set a precedent for being everyone’s shoulder to cry on, even actively pushing for it. he’s run himself dry and is resentful that Achilles wants to rely on him. he really ought to have said no to Achilles, but i’m getting the sense he doesn’t feel like he can because none of these dinks ever talk to each other lol. plus, he clearly isn’t confident that Mars and Achilles will continue to be cooperative enough to keep Clair from finding out anything incriminating. it’s been hard for him to relax. bro really needs a break, and needs to learn that he can let himself have one
and he needs to let himself be vulnerable, because he’s not going to feel supported until he takes that leap
Yeah, it’s an interesting little regression for Pepper. We’ve seen Pepper explicitly ask for help four times, I believe? He asked Achilles to stay after the stairs, he asked Chloe to help him figure out Clair and then to pass on a few messages, and he (barely) asked Mars to help him watch out for Achilles. The most emblematic one is where he was scared to sleep alone after the stairs; he initially tried to get Achilles to stay by making shit up and saying that it’s for Achilles’ own good, and only when Achilles shuts it down and makes it clear Pepper can’t make him stay does he break down and actually ask for him to stay. He tries the same thing with Mars so she’ll help him up the stairs, who also sees through it but senses the hypocrisy. Pepper is uncomfortable with the role of being the person who needs to be helped, and so he tries to make it so he’s the one doing the other person the favor or frame it as like a collective good. With Achilles that night, when push came to shove, he could be honest. Couldn’t with Mars, and he can’t do it with Achilles now. He’s grown more isolated. We’re on a downswing.
as much as i really like pepper, i’m admittedly intrigued by the idea of him screwing up in his own relationships the way he so easily observes the rest of them doing. easy to have all the answers when you’re a third party. maybe he’s not as mature as he thinks he is? we’ll see
Yeah, to me that’s sort of Halo Head’s big thing with its “characters bouncing off each other” plot! Most of the characters’ have traits that in a vacuum we could argue are completely positive, but in context of each other cause conflict. Clair’s love for and genuine concern for her [insert whatever word you want to use for her complicated relationship with Chloe] is a virtue, but the same trait that motivates her to make Chloe lemonade and bandage her beestings drives her to try to confiscate that fucking book. Achilles is a very innocent person who finds joy and beauty in places no one else thinks to look, and that innocent drive for pleasure and to see the good in people simultaneously leads to him refusing to think about uncomfortable shit. Et cetera et cetera. These aren’t really contradictory or even different traits, but the same traits expressed in varyingly healthy ways and contexts. Their vices and virtues are intertwined, which is why the use of Chloe and Clair’s angel-devil motif is very cool and interesting. Good traits and bad traits in Halo Head are a matter of perspective and timing, which goes well with the fact that the plot is these sympathetic characters acting out their neuroses on each other. Yin yang and all that.
Pepper isn’t immune to this pattern, and so the same traits that make him a good person (attentive, wants to take care of people, wants to make sense out of the world) seed his own downfall by making him manipulative and struggle to ask for help or address his obvious conflict with Achilles before we got here, as he takes more and more problems onto himself until he freaks. It’s a theme.
(and if you let me get psychoanalytic with the rest of the audience, that’s probably why even though the stakes of most of the character conflicts, like Clair calling Chloe a liar or Pepper being rude in a single conversation, tge audience stays very invested and defends or attacks characters relatively aggressively, because it’s very easy to recognize the virtue in each character’s vice. But that’s a much weaker argument lol)
After last comics comment section and I’m seeing it a lil here, I think I need everyone to back the fuck up from their computer and take a walk honestly.
Y’all gotta remember this is a comic and these people aren’t real for one thing.
It’s great y’all love these characters and can relate to them and are invested but I think y’all are getting lost in the sauce way too much at the moment.
I get the vibe some of you are seeing these characters get criticised and are taking it *personally* because you relate to them, and I need you to remember NO ONE here actually knows who you are or what you’re about, so calm down.
The reason we love halo heads writing and are invested so much is because the writing feels real as fuck.
You can talk about what the characters should be doing, should of done, what they should get up to in the future to avoid these things, but remember it is easier to say it than it is ever to do it, especially when you’re in it full force.
These characters are gonna fuck up, they’ll be “dicks”, it won’t be fixed instantly.
This comic isn’t about whipping up a problem and solving it immediately, it’s about being real as fuck and having these problems and the journey in dealing with them.
Some of them might never get sorted out! You’re gonna have to deal with that!
Seriously, take a step away from the computer and go for a walk or something and take like 10mins to really think before you post comments from now on is my advice.
i don’t think anyone’s actually angry or upset
DAMNNN go off pepper!!1
This is uncharacteristically hostile!! I feel like no matter how this conversation ends Pepper is going to regret it
I feel like Pepper wouldn’t be snapping so much here if Achilles wasn’t literally tugging on his arm while he’s trying to cook
Let’s not forget that Pepper has had like 4 hours of sleep in the past week. I dislike his manipulative ways, but here his people pleasing really got the best of him and I’m empathizing with to such a degree.. go off boi :chloe-onice:
People pleasing or fear that if Achilles gets sad, he’ll fuck everything up and trigger Clair
People pleasing or straight up fear that Achilles, unregulated, will spill the beans and fuck things up with Clair
Get his ass Pepper. Throw the cat into the sea.
Oof. Hard shit. Pepper needs to take a deep breath. He’s exhibiting behavior akin to getting angry at someone who’s autistic. Get too angry, and Achilles will shut him out. Go too soft, and Achilles (as well as others) will continue to use Pepper as a welcome mat.
Pepper needs to set boundaries. He’s the “too nice” type that always snaps at times when pushed too hard.
Achilles needs to understand boundaries, and set his own as well. He just needs to sit and actually be introspective.
I’m autistic, so I relate more with Achilles, but I also understand I can be a bit much at times. I’ve learned that and am doing my best with that. Achilles needs to do the same.
Pepper is out of line here. There’s something *really* frustrating about someone refusing to set a boundary/voice discomfort acting like they’re being taken advantage of when the other person would back off immediately if they just spoke up.
You don’t get to lecture someone about consent and not apply those same concepts to yourself.
Pepper’s gone out of his way to establish himself as a confidant and involve himself in other’s business. “For some reason, you want me to be the one to tell you”–because you’ve set that precedent very insistently. Because you just invited him into your house and specifically prompted him to talk about his problems.
Which is secretly not okay, but instead of speaking up, he’s just harboring resentment and making it out like Achilles is emotionally forcing himself on him, even though he could choose to communicate his emotional unavailability at the moment or pause the conversation at any time.
It always feels so nasty to learn after the fact that you hurt someone without meaning to, and it especially sucks when it could have been 100% avoided with a little communication.
(Disclaimer: I actually really like Pepper’s character and I’m not saying this to belittle him or his fans here!!)
Extremely relatable plural experience of referencing your headmates and being told “That’s just thinking.”
Nah m8 it’s a bit more complicated than that.