considering that peachy is intended to be a reflection of all of chloes negative qualities is she really that far off? Can you not imagine chloe doing the exact same thing? out if the six inhabitants of that layer the only two people who are even remotely inclined to be destructive and irresponsible are Chloe and Peachy, and peachy has been around the shortest out of all of them. I swear yall are looking for ways to hate clair constantly even though they are artistically implied to be TWO HALVES OF THE SAME PERSON.
How could they be the same person, they’re not even wearing the same shoes.
More seriously, I’m not saying this to hate on Clair. I’m saying this to point out that Chloe’s assessment of Clair’s attitude towards her is correct.
But if I wanted to hate on Clair, I’d bring up that even if Clair thinks Chloe did it, she doesn’t have to voice that. Clair wants to be on good terms with Chloe, but she keeps saying things that Clair would know would antagonize Chloe if Clair were actually empathic.
I mean, it sucks that Clair falsely assumed it was Chloe, but we’ve seen Chloe vandalize a ton of shit! Releasing crabs in her house, throwing peaches at her house and face, knocking down beehives, throwing glasses of lemonade and leaving Clair to pick up the pieces… Clair automatically assuming Chloe did it isn’t her thinking of the worst of her, it’s Clair having basic pattern recognition lol
Also… does she always assume the worst of her? A big part of the most recurring joke is that Clair assuming that Chloe is going to play along with her rules and be “good” and then Chloe saying lol no and pulling the rug out from under her. Clair at times seems kind of desperate to believe that Chloe will spontaneously get it together
I’m not even saying that Clair is wrong to assume that Chloe broke the skylight. I’m saying she’s wrong to voice that assumption.
Clair is wrong to assume that, though. If Chloe broke Pepper’s skylight playing rock baseball, she would brag about it.
And Chloe is still right about how Clair views her. Even if Clair thinks Chloe will turn around any moment, she still views her as someone who has up to that point just gone around breaking shit. Clair always frames it as “Ah, have you finally decided to be good?”.
Also note that when Chloe released crabs in Clair’s house, Chloe had built a racetrack. On the island that Clair had told her she could change and build on as she saw fit. Clair then treated Chloe’s creation as litter. Chloe wasn’t just being a vandal there, Clair just couldn’t see that. After all, if Chloe wanted to build something, she would’ve asked Clair, right?
M’s contribution here is a much better and slightly less emotional say of saying what i wanted to, that sure clair is being unreasonable but she isnt *devoid* of reason to think how she is thinking. A lot of people here seem to focus on the negatives of clair while not really addressing the negatives of chloe. I dont know if this is because chloe is the more relatable of the two and clair is the “stern annoying authority figure” but i just see a lot of very hateful things said about clair when it is VERY clear the amount of care she has for chloe. I mean the girl made an entire universe for her to learn and grow from. Meanwhile chloe takes that world and, from clairs perspective, takes a huge dump on it. None of these characters flaws make them inherently bad people and i think thats a really big theme in this comic that some people are REALLY missing.
and i think another really important thing in this comic is *perspective*. From each of these characters perspectives they are completely valid in doing what they are doing and feeling how they are feeling. From clairs perspective chloe is someone who she really cares about and tries very hard to help, but is also someone who will do ANYTHING in her power to rebel against those attempts. Chloe sees clair as an overbearing authority figure who tries to control her life and force her down a specific path. It is impossible to say either perspective is *incorrect* but to say that either one of them is more correct than the other is disingenuous. A lot if people seem to be “taking sides” and making it a conflict, when this is supposed to be a *relationship*.
Is it impossible, though? When Achilles wants to boil himself in Pepper’s hot tub and Pepper wants him not to, do we say they’re both right from their own perspective?
More to the point, we have Ares, a character voicing the perspective that you don’t have to do things Clair’s way and you can be happy without her. I don’t think it’s missing the point to consider that Clair may be wrong. After all, that’s part of the point of Ares.
Clair is well intentioned, but she’s poison to Chloe a lot of the time. And Clair is the reason they’re in this situation, she made Halo Head. Clair made a sandbox, locked Chloe into it and keeps telling her she’s playing with the sand wrong.
Feelings arent right or wrong, some feelings are harmful to others or to themselves but there has been nothing other than a little bit of ominous dialogue to paint Clair as an actual, classical antagonist, and yet people still treat her like she is one. Also, theres no evidence to the idea that clair “locked her in halo head” That point of view takes quite a few liberties, like assuming that halo head is a literal actual world and that none of this is (as is heavily implied) in chloes head. This could very well be a long and drawn out hallucination happening in the moments directly after “the event”. You are also assuming that the prior layers were left behind as a direct result of clairs choices. Ive seen quite a few theories that, when chloes does start to understand whats happening, the whole layer goes to shit. There are hundreds of interpretations and perspectives here that you are ignoring in favor of your internal projection of clair.
I think it’s reductive to see the whole thing as something that’s just happening in Chloe and Clair’s shared head when one of the very first things that happened is that Achilles, one of the ‘NPCs’, wanders off to explore the world away from Chloe and Clair, and we have Pepper, another ‘NPC’, looking to investigate the metaphysics of the world he’s in. On some level, Halo Head is a place with people in it, and if you consider it to be just a hallucination on Clair and Chloe’s part you render all their characterization and interactions down to irrelevance.
As for the situation being Clair’s doing, note this remark from Chloe on page 53:
“You think I’m stupid? I’m not the one who decided to live here.”
We also have pepper on page 367:
“Did she ever ask you to do any of this?”
Whereupon Clair explains why she did it without being asked.
There is absolutely reason to think that Clair created this situation and Chloe never had a say in it. That doesn’t mean Chloe considers Clair to be her jailor. In the sleepover and in the talk with pepper after the sleepover, Chloe seems to realize Clair has her best interests at heart. But altruistic intent doesn’t mean someone isn’t ultimately harmful, especially when they’re unwilling to change course like Clair is. Someone can be sympathetic, well intentioned and still bad.
I think you’re using the existence of multiple different perspectives to avoid trying to interpret events. But for the record, I don’t think Clair is a villain or a bad person. I do view her as being at fault. Future events might change my mind on that, that is how stories tend to go.
I don’t agree that Chloe would have definitely bragged. That’s how Clair knew it was her that threw the peaches at her, remember? It was either her or Peachykeen, and Peachykeen wouldn’t hide. Chloe did. Chloe wouldn’t have lied about it once accused, but until we hear Clair’s reaction to her saying it was Peachy on the next page, we don’t know if she thinks that.
And yes, Chloe is correct that Clair views her as someone who always wrecks shit, because Chloe does wreck shit. It’s not the only thing she does, and it is part of their toxic relationship that Clair gives the impression that she thinks that all Chloe is or does, but Chloe does indeed constantly vandalize stuff and behave recklessly. That’s why the implication of being compared to Peachy was so hurtful, because it’s a clear diagnosis of one of Chloe’s character flaws. People observing this fact is not a moral or even tactical failure on their part; I would argue that tiptoeing around it would be counterproductive to building a healthier relationship. That’s Pepper has had better success with Chloe. He acknowledges Chloe’s destructive tendencies while also encouraging her more constructive ones.
I am uncertain why you brought up Clair’s dismantling the racetracks here, but yes, I do agree. “Chloe expresses herself in a way that is rude/upsetting to Clair, who retaliates in a way that infringes on Chloe’s autonomy, and their relationship further decays” is the core of their conflict.
(I think you might’ve replied to the wrong post here.)
I don’t expect Clair to disbelieve Chloe on Peachy having made the crack. At the same time, I think the comparison with the peach throwing incident is apples to oranges. Chloe snuck away cause she doesn’t take orders from Clair and Clair was shouting at her to come over and clean her. Chloe is generally very upfront about the trouble she causes towards Clair.
I think there’s a difference between acknowledging that Chloe does/has done destructive things and assuming that that’s what she did or is gonna do. I don’t think we’ve seen Pepper do the latter.
The reason I brought up the race track is cause you mentioned the crabs as an example of Chloe being a vandal, justifying Clair’s view of Chloe being such. I think seeing the crabs and not the racetrack is an example of Clair just seeing the bad Chloe did and not the good.
i really think this whole argument is one giant misunderstanding. Let me clarify my point here. I was not trying to avoid “interpreting things”. Im not some sort of clair apologist who thinks she can do nothing wrong. I dont think clair is being worse or chloe is being worse, i am trying to call attention to the fact that this comic seems very intent on illustrating the fact that every single person in this world is flawed, and that we shouldnt condemn anybody to hatred because we dont like their specific flaws. I was trying to call attention to the fact that, from my perspective, people seemed to be dogpiling clair in the comments because her flaws are very obvious. I see a lot of what seems like people being all lovey dovey with chloe and framing her flaws as personality traits (WHICH IS NOT UNREASONABLE) while framing all of clairs flaws as things worth condemning. I need to clarify, however, that this is MY perspective, and that most of these comments likely did not intend to come off that way.
(Goodness, this nest of comments is turning into a right mess. Good luck to future archeologists!)
Let me try to clarify a couple things as well, then.
I don’t hate Clair, and I don’t think she’s making the decision to abandon layers. I think she’s well intentioned but emotionally under equipped and ultimately unable to grow in the ways she needs to.
I think when talking about interpretations, it’s better to bring up things that contradict them than to gesture broadly at an existing wealth of interpretations. This is because the latter is an argument against all individual interpretations, and that’s not a very useful way to think about a work.
I said it below too, but since you’ll likely read this first I’ll reiterate: I’m not mad at you, the reason I’ve been making comments is because I like talking about stuff. I’ve merely been trying to waylay some what I believe are flawed arguments and clarify my position on Clair.
I can’t imagine Chloe doing this, no. While Chloe can be very abrasive and brash and loud and hardheaded and even a little annoying, she has not (to my recollection) shown a penchant for destroying things the way peachy has.
i don’t think peachy is a perfect mirror for chloe. remember, the inhabitants are created by clair — and clair is just as imperfect as any of them. ive always kinda thought that peachy was akin to clair venting her frustrations about chloe. yes, peachy and chloe do have things in common, but its in the way that peachy is like if some of chloes most annoying traits were turned up to 11.
chloe’s faux self-importance? peachy’s self-worship.
chloe’s ‘vandalism’? peachy’s tree destruction.
chloe’s difficulty with emotional situations?… remember that time achilles was crying and peachy tasted his tears and said he disgusts her? yeah. i dont think peachy’s good at emotions either.
neither chloe nor clair are coping with things in necessarily healthy ways; we shouldn’t oversimplify one character to get at the nuance of the other, i feel like doing so misses the point.
chloe and clair butt heads a lot because they’re extremely different from one another, and because they are both damn stubborn, neither of them really seem to understand one another, they only seem to understand how the other affects them.doesnt want to listen to her.
I mean, it’s a cracked windowpane, not a blown up building! Obviously YMMV for how you think of it, but a cracking a window to me is less of a “oh my god what are you DOING” thing than knocking down a beehive.
Also, I will point out that the implication of the way Clair says it isn’t really implying that Chloe deliberately broke it. “Playing baseball with a rock” still makes it sound like she thinks Chloe was playing recklessly and accidentally broke it. (Which, imo, is more hurtful since Chloe told Pepper in tears that she thinks Clair thinks she’s too stupid to be careful with things.)
… Welp. I just sparked a long debate in the comments with this one. Don’t know whether I should be proud or not for sparking such discussion.
Anyway, sarcasm from the first comment aside, I do like how both sides of perspective are brought up. However, there’s one big thing for me that makes Clair the bigger problem. She doesn’t try to understand Chloe in a meaningful way. The problem would not be fixed if Chloe decided to follow her instructions as Clair would just be forcing Chloe to do things instead of making her own decisions. If things are to be repaired between the two, Clair has to understand Chloe.
Recently, during the shower scene, Chloe makes a joke of headbutting the shampoo into Clair, and when Clair refuses, Chloe just offers to do it the normal way, no strings attached. When trusted with scissors, Chloe jokes about making bloodshed, but just normally cuts the leash binding Clair and Achilles together. Chloe shows that she was willing to not cause problems despite that teasing.
And yet, when it came down to it, Clair kept trying to take that book. And sure, Chloe said she stole it, but Clair never said “you should give it back”. She just said “I’ll return it for you”. Which just shows that she thinks of herself as someone who has to fix everything, which by extension shows she thinks of Chloe as a problem to fix, which by extension shows how Chloe only thinks of Clair as “a problem”. But, if given the chance to put away her prejudices, Chloe shows she’s willing to make compromises and be really kind, even if she throws in her own sense of humor.
Of course, Chloe does have her own problems where she just doesn’t want to talk about or do certain things. Sure, Chloe has some independence in choosing to not do anything, but Clair made it harder. Instead of giving Chloe a home to live comfortably, Clair tells her to “earn it”. Instead of Chloe being able to work out her emotions, Clair tells her to “not think about it”. Chloe is taking advantage of the choices she does have (which are bad), but if given a place to feel safe (like with Pepper), Chloe would be much more open and kindhearted, even if she acts like a gremlin.
Which is why I really, really hope that Achilles can be to Clair what Pepper was to Chloe. Pepper brought out the better parts of Chloe that led to her healing and becoming more open. I hope Achilles can somehow do the same and bring out Clair’s better parts and becoming more open as well. Because in the end, while I despite Clair’s accusational attitude, I still wish for her healing as well so both sides can finally unite. But that will only happen when both sides can put away their pride, admit their wrongdoings, and be able to work together.
I don’t think Clair wanted the book gone from Chloe for fixing everything reasons, actually. I think Clair believes it’d be harmful for Chloe to read the book and wanted it gone for that reason. It doesn’t come off that way to Chloe, of course.
I mean, that’s assuming Clair is wrong about that. For all we know, reading the book would be bad for Chloe and Clair is doing the right thing trying to keep it away from her, even if doing so would make Chloe upset with her.
feeling like the shape of the crack reminds me of the last time we saw the traumatic event. considering peachy’s inclinations, i want to say it’s significant, but im not sure how yet :peachy-1:
“And what do we say.” 💔
When was the last time Clair has ever apologized to Chole. Like with genuine remorse for her actions. She must have spent so long finding reasons to be right all time with Chloe. When has she ever truly felt validated for her behaviors up til now? She’s been chasing validation so long, she’s forgotten what a pathway out looks like.
The conversation hasnt even ended yet, the comic is still ongoing, and she hasnt even had a chance to say anything in response to what chloe JUST told her, that it was actually peachy. The first line of the next comic could literally be “oh, ok sorry” but youre immediately jumping to conclusions. Im not saying that conclusion is unreasonable but god yall have NO faith in clair.
Clair frames everything in a way where she’s the responsible one who’s giving Chloe the world on a silver platter while Chloe fails to play along because of her bad character traits. Clair does this because she has her own issues, and they work as well with Chloe’s as ice cubes do with a deep fryer.
If you need Clair to turn around immediately and be understanding and conciliatory, you’re not really in Clair’s corner.
Right, I am not trying to dog on Clair at all here. I’m just interpretting Chloe’s first sentence, since it’s pretty easy to see that Clair’s default reaction to anything happening is to blame Chloe. It’s one thing if she really did do it, but she didn’t this time and that has to hurt a bit. In this particular moment, Chloe expects Clair to think that she’s not the only one solely capable of property damage (a slightly unreasonable think, but that’s bc it’s in character with her personality).
If I didn’t have “faith” in Clair, it’s bc if how stubbornly she’s committed to continuing her dream of self-sabotage and misplaced good-will. It will take a TRULY significant event for her to finally wake up in a way that matters. THAT’S what I have faith in.
Like Clair seems very hung up on the version of Chloe that is unruly, uncontrollable, and inconsolable, that you have to wonder when was the last time she’s ever truly considered a Chloe that does things different, makes efforts to do something outside the pre-conceived notion. All this scene is telling me (even if it isn’t technically over yet) is how blind she is to it. It’s like when she asks why “*she* makes it so hard.” Does she actually want to know why, or is she only saying ‘why’ in the way that people do when they ask why life is so hard? Ya know? Idk, I may be thinking too deep on that part
You know what, I’ll play angel’s advocate a little. Clair’s getting dogpiled anyway.
Clair is dragging Chloe by the tail, sure, but she’s doing that because Chloe was trying to climb up Pepper’s roof two pages ago and could’ve broken something if Clair had let her. Chloe will sometimes hurt herself if unattended, see the bees nest and the ice tub. Manhandling Chloe to get her away from hazards is a strategy that works, and Clair’s just using it here. Though in large part when Chloe puts herself in danger she’s probably doing it to mess with Clair.
the window as imagery or symbolism is something we’ve seen a bunch of times now. in flashbacks/dreams, a viewpoint or literal window into someone else’s goings-on. the sun shining down through this window onto chloe when she wakes up in pepper’s house the first time. I guess you could also argue the person looking down into their glasses. I don’t think these things have a literal interpretation necessarily, but they are pretty hard to deny.
and now the window broken by peachy. it doesn’t feel prohibitive or like a setback. it feels more like smashing the window will lead (the readers at least) to some kind of revelation. especially with big ol’ five hundo coming up!!!!!! and I believe that peachy is more like a driving force for realization, like a hand out of clair’s control reaching in from the outside world, causing chaos (tho ironically made by her).
Can we appreciate how cool Pepper’s house is again? I mean, look at the bookshelves in the unused stairs. They are gorgeous! :peachy-cutesy: (also did we get new stickers?)
I know not everything has to be intimate but tying her up and leading her by her tail is crazy you gotta admit. Though it could also have other readings, like before they were talking about how she uses her tail to express some emotions so it doesn’t seem like a coincidence to show Clair grabbing it now :peachy-1:
tbh before perusing the other comments I didn’t even catch that the “you” was directed at Chloe in particular. I thought it was towards her and Pepper both, and I was kind of charmed by the idea of Clair having a mental image of them doing some insane activity on the roof or throwing shit in his house
Considering all the comments I’ve seen, I gotta come in and bat for Claire here.
Claire assumes fairly that is was Chloe because Chloe has a history of being destructive. It being Peachy wasn’t mentioned yet and all the information Claire has is she thinks Chloe is involved with it being broken, of course she’s going to assume it’s Chloe.
Now we have Chloe’s perspective who, obviously knows she didn’t do it, but her lack of reaction show’s she’s quite used to being blamed for things, and her calm response knows she might of gotten the blame, she’s used to it because I think she knows her own history.
Claire can not be blamed for her assumption in this moment, Chloe has a history of being reckless, destructive and lying. Chloe also replies here with an idea for an activity that would be messy and destructive, it’s not really painting her in a good light to Claire.
I think people tend to forget that there has been multiple layers and Claire remembers every single one while Chloe forgets, now this is by Claire’s own fault and she is burdening herself unasked BUT she also remembers The Event/trauma and deems it such an issue to remember she needs to protect Chloe from doing so (The mind repressing trauma).
Everything Claire does, while seemingly misaligned at points is always, in her head, to protect Chloe.
The point here is that Claire remembers alot more than we have privvy to and knows how Chloe acts over a very long period of time, it’s clear not much has changed, so Claire’s assumptions are based off of evidence.
This comment is specifically for this moment that people seem to be attacking Claire for lmao.
Just want to say sorry to everyone for starting a huge argument in the comments. Ive been very emotional lately as im trying to stop using a certain drug and i sorta went off on a tangent. I have a bad habit of arguing with people in comments after spending years on insta. Just wanna say i love all the halo head characters equally and this is easily my favorite comic to stay up to date with. Love yall and i got nothing against anyone who participated. :thesmoocher:
Don’t worry, I don’t think you were being argumentive, you were just clarifying and stating your points and explaining your interpretations and ideas about this comic and the characters.
Some points in the discussion from people did read off as them trying to state things as facts when I think everyone has to remember these are our opinions and own interpretations.
Imo you were fine :mors:
Yeah you’re fine, don’t worry about it. I discuss things in comments because I like discussing things. I’m not doing it cause I’m mad or anything. This is a comic rich in subtle characterization and symbolism, it’s meant to be discussed IMO.
ty, it can be very hard to tell tone on the internet, big limit of text. I always try to assume people have the best intentions in mind but i get a little aggressive when people try to interpret my viewpoint. guess im kinda like chloe like that lol
to be honest, thats an unseen clair expression. shes never done that one
Love how Clair immediately shifts to thinking it was something Chloe would have done. Shows just how much she actually thinks about Chloe.
fr it’s never anyone else’s fault, it’s by default chloe’s doing which is. ew
It’s almost like Clair considers Chloe some kind of wild animal that just wrecks everything, the kind that just stands around waiting to break stuff.
considering that peachy is intended to be a reflection of all of chloes negative qualities is she really that far off? Can you not imagine chloe doing the exact same thing? out if the six inhabitants of that layer the only two people who are even remotely inclined to be destructive and irresponsible are Chloe and Peachy, and peachy has been around the shortest out of all of them. I swear yall are looking for ways to hate clair constantly even though they are artistically implied to be TWO HALVES OF THE SAME PERSON.
How could they be the same person, they’re not even wearing the same shoes.
More seriously, I’m not saying this to hate on Clair. I’m saying this to point out that Chloe’s assessment of Clair’s attitude towards her is correct.
But if I wanted to hate on Clair, I’d bring up that even if Clair thinks Chloe did it, she doesn’t have to voice that. Clair wants to be on good terms with Chloe, but she keeps saying things that Clair would know would antagonize Chloe if Clair were actually empathic.
I mean, it sucks that Clair falsely assumed it was Chloe, but we’ve seen Chloe vandalize a ton of shit! Releasing crabs in her house, throwing peaches at her house and face, knocking down beehives, throwing glasses of lemonade and leaving Clair to pick up the pieces… Clair automatically assuming Chloe did it isn’t her thinking of the worst of her, it’s Clair having basic pattern recognition lol
Also… does she always assume the worst of her? A big part of the most recurring joke is that Clair assuming that Chloe is going to play along with her rules and be “good” and then Chloe saying lol no and pulling the rug out from under her. Clair at times seems kind of desperate to believe that Chloe will spontaneously get it together
I’m not even saying that Clair is wrong to assume that Chloe broke the skylight. I’m saying she’s wrong to voice that assumption.
Clair is wrong to assume that, though. If Chloe broke Pepper’s skylight playing rock baseball, she would brag about it.
And Chloe is still right about how Clair views her. Even if Clair thinks Chloe will turn around any moment, she still views her as someone who has up to that point just gone around breaking shit. Clair always frames it as “Ah, have you finally decided to be good?”.
Also note that when Chloe released crabs in Clair’s house, Chloe had built a racetrack. On the island that Clair had told her she could change and build on as she saw fit. Clair then treated Chloe’s creation as litter. Chloe wasn’t just being a vandal there, Clair just couldn’t see that. After all, if Chloe wanted to build something, she would’ve asked Clair, right?
M’s contribution here is a much better and slightly less emotional say of saying what i wanted to, that sure clair is being unreasonable but she isnt *devoid* of reason to think how she is thinking. A lot of people here seem to focus on the negatives of clair while not really addressing the negatives of chloe. I dont know if this is because chloe is the more relatable of the two and clair is the “stern annoying authority figure” but i just see a lot of very hateful things said about clair when it is VERY clear the amount of care she has for chloe. I mean the girl made an entire universe for her to learn and grow from. Meanwhile chloe takes that world and, from clairs perspective, takes a huge dump on it. None of these characters flaws make them inherently bad people and i think thats a really big theme in this comic that some people are REALLY missing.
and i think another really important thing in this comic is *perspective*. From each of these characters perspectives they are completely valid in doing what they are doing and feeling how they are feeling. From clairs perspective chloe is someone who she really cares about and tries very hard to help, but is also someone who will do ANYTHING in her power to rebel against those attempts. Chloe sees clair as an overbearing authority figure who tries to control her life and force her down a specific path. It is impossible to say either perspective is *incorrect* but to say that either one of them is more correct than the other is disingenuous. A lot if people seem to be “taking sides” and making it a conflict, when this is supposed to be a *relationship*.
Is it impossible, though? When Achilles wants to boil himself in Pepper’s hot tub and Pepper wants him not to, do we say they’re both right from their own perspective?
More to the point, we have Ares, a character voicing the perspective that you don’t have to do things Clair’s way and you can be happy without her. I don’t think it’s missing the point to consider that Clair may be wrong. After all, that’s part of the point of Ares.
Clair is well intentioned, but she’s poison to Chloe a lot of the time. And Clair is the reason they’re in this situation, she made Halo Head. Clair made a sandbox, locked Chloe into it and keeps telling her she’s playing with the sand wrong.
Feelings arent right or wrong, some feelings are harmful to others or to themselves but there has been nothing other than a little bit of ominous dialogue to paint Clair as an actual, classical antagonist, and yet people still treat her like she is one. Also, theres no evidence to the idea that clair “locked her in halo head” That point of view takes quite a few liberties, like assuming that halo head is a literal actual world and that none of this is (as is heavily implied) in chloes head. This could very well be a long and drawn out hallucination happening in the moments directly after “the event”. You are also assuming that the prior layers were left behind as a direct result of clairs choices. Ive seen quite a few theories that, when chloes does start to understand whats happening, the whole layer goes to shit. There are hundreds of interpretations and perspectives here that you are ignoring in favor of your internal projection of clair.
also i never said clair was RIGHT. I dont agree with most of her methods or how she acts, i just see that her motivations really do seem altruistic.
I think it’s reductive to see the whole thing as something that’s just happening in Chloe and Clair’s shared head when one of the very first things that happened is that Achilles, one of the ‘NPCs’, wanders off to explore the world away from Chloe and Clair, and we have Pepper, another ‘NPC’, looking to investigate the metaphysics of the world he’s in. On some level, Halo Head is a place with people in it, and if you consider it to be just a hallucination on Clair and Chloe’s part you render all their characterization and interactions down to irrelevance.
As for the situation being Clair’s doing, note this remark from Chloe on page 53:
“You think I’m stupid? I’m not the one who decided to live here.”
We also have pepper on page 367:
“Did she ever ask you to do any of this?”
Whereupon Clair explains why she did it without being asked.
There is absolutely reason to think that Clair created this situation and Chloe never had a say in it. That doesn’t mean Chloe considers Clair to be her jailor. In the sleepover and in the talk with pepper after the sleepover, Chloe seems to realize Clair has her best interests at heart. But altruistic intent doesn’t mean someone isn’t ultimately harmful, especially when they’re unwilling to change course like Clair is. Someone can be sympathetic, well intentioned and still bad.
I think you’re using the existence of multiple different perspectives to avoid trying to interpret events. But for the record, I don’t think Clair is a villain or a bad person. I do view her as being at fault. Future events might change my mind on that, that is how stories tend to go.
I don’t agree that Chloe would have definitely bragged. That’s how Clair knew it was her that threw the peaches at her, remember? It was either her or Peachykeen, and Peachykeen wouldn’t hide. Chloe did. Chloe wouldn’t have lied about it once accused, but until we hear Clair’s reaction to her saying it was Peachy on the next page, we don’t know if she thinks that.
And yes, Chloe is correct that Clair views her as someone who always wrecks shit, because Chloe does wreck shit. It’s not the only thing she does, and it is part of their toxic relationship that Clair gives the impression that she thinks that all Chloe is or does, but Chloe does indeed constantly vandalize stuff and behave recklessly. That’s why the implication of being compared to Peachy was so hurtful, because it’s a clear diagnosis of one of Chloe’s character flaws. People observing this fact is not a moral or even tactical failure on their part; I would argue that tiptoeing around it would be counterproductive to building a healthier relationship. That’s Pepper has had better success with Chloe. He acknowledges Chloe’s destructive tendencies while also encouraging her more constructive ones.
I am uncertain why you brought up Clair’s dismantling the racetracks here, but yes, I do agree. “Chloe expresses herself in a way that is rude/upsetting to Clair, who retaliates in a way that infringes on Chloe’s autonomy, and their relationship further decays” is the core of their conflict.
(I think you might’ve replied to the wrong post here.)
I don’t expect Clair to disbelieve Chloe on Peachy having made the crack. At the same time, I think the comparison with the peach throwing incident is apples to oranges. Chloe snuck away cause she doesn’t take orders from Clair and Clair was shouting at her to come over and clean her. Chloe is generally very upfront about the trouble she causes towards Clair.
I think there’s a difference between acknowledging that Chloe does/has done destructive things and assuming that that’s what she did or is gonna do. I don’t think we’ve seen Pepper do the latter.
The reason I brought up the race track is cause you mentioned the crabs as an example of Chloe being a vandal, justifying Clair’s view of Chloe being such. I think seeing the crabs and not the racetrack is an example of Clair just seeing the bad Chloe did and not the good.
i really think this whole argument is one giant misunderstanding. Let me clarify my point here. I was not trying to avoid “interpreting things”. Im not some sort of clair apologist who thinks she can do nothing wrong. I dont think clair is being worse or chloe is being worse, i am trying to call attention to the fact that this comic seems very intent on illustrating the fact that every single person in this world is flawed, and that we shouldnt condemn anybody to hatred because we dont like their specific flaws. I was trying to call attention to the fact that, from my perspective, people seemed to be dogpiling clair in the comments because her flaws are very obvious. I see a lot of what seems like people being all lovey dovey with chloe and framing her flaws as personality traits (WHICH IS NOT UNREASONABLE) while framing all of clairs flaws as things worth condemning. I need to clarify, however, that this is MY perspective, and that most of these comments likely did not intend to come off that way.
also, i am not trying to justify either characters actions, i am only trying to provide a way to understand them
(Goodness, this nest of comments is turning into a right mess. Good luck to future archeologists!)
Let me try to clarify a couple things as well, then.
I don’t hate Clair, and I don’t think she’s making the decision to abandon layers. I think she’s well intentioned but emotionally under equipped and ultimately unable to grow in the ways she needs to.
I think when talking about interpretations, it’s better to bring up things that contradict them than to gesture broadly at an existing wealth of interpretations. This is because the latter is an argument against all individual interpretations, and that’s not a very useful way to think about a work.
I said it below too, but since you’ll likely read this first I’ll reiterate: I’m not mad at you, the reason I’ve been making comments is because I like talking about stuff. I’ve merely been trying to waylay some what I believe are flawed arguments and clarify my position on Clair.
I can’t imagine Chloe doing this, no. While Chloe can be very abrasive and brash and loud and hardheaded and even a little annoying, she has not (to my recollection) shown a penchant for destroying things the way peachy has.
i don’t think peachy is a perfect mirror for chloe. remember, the inhabitants are created by clair — and clair is just as imperfect as any of them. ive always kinda thought that peachy was akin to clair venting her frustrations about chloe. yes, peachy and chloe do have things in common, but its in the way that peachy is like if some of chloes most annoying traits were turned up to 11.
chloe’s faux self-importance? peachy’s self-worship.
chloe’s ‘vandalism’? peachy’s tree destruction.
chloe’s difficulty with emotional situations?… remember that time achilles was crying and peachy tasted his tears and said he disgusts her? yeah. i dont think peachy’s good at emotions either.
neither chloe nor clair are coping with things in necessarily healthy ways; we shouldn’t oversimplify one character to get at the nuance of the other, i feel like doing so misses the point.
chloe and clair butt heads a lot because they’re extremely different from one another, and because they are both damn stubborn, neither of them really seem to understand one another, they only seem to understand how the other affects them.doesnt want to listen to her.
I mean, it’s a cracked windowpane, not a blown up building! Obviously YMMV for how you think of it, but a cracking a window to me is less of a “oh my god what are you DOING” thing than knocking down a beehive.
Also, I will point out that the implication of the way Clair says it isn’t really implying that Chloe deliberately broke it. “Playing baseball with a rock” still makes it sound like she thinks Chloe was playing recklessly and accidentally broke it. (Which, imo, is more hurtful since Chloe told Pepper in tears that she thinks Clair thinks she’s too stupid to be careful with things.)
i mean sure but again chloe has not shown a penchant for breaking shit and thats kinda what im getting at
… Welp. I just sparked a long debate in the comments with this one. Don’t know whether I should be proud or not for sparking such discussion.
Anyway, sarcasm from the first comment aside, I do like how both sides of perspective are brought up. However, there’s one big thing for me that makes Clair the bigger problem. She doesn’t try to understand Chloe in a meaningful way. The problem would not be fixed if Chloe decided to follow her instructions as Clair would just be forcing Chloe to do things instead of making her own decisions. If things are to be repaired between the two, Clair has to understand Chloe.
Recently, during the shower scene, Chloe makes a joke of headbutting the shampoo into Clair, and when Clair refuses, Chloe just offers to do it the normal way, no strings attached. When trusted with scissors, Chloe jokes about making bloodshed, but just normally cuts the leash binding Clair and Achilles together. Chloe shows that she was willing to not cause problems despite that teasing.
And yet, when it came down to it, Clair kept trying to take that book. And sure, Chloe said she stole it, but Clair never said “you should give it back”. She just said “I’ll return it for you”. Which just shows that she thinks of herself as someone who has to fix everything, which by extension shows she thinks of Chloe as a problem to fix, which by extension shows how Chloe only thinks of Clair as “a problem”. But, if given the chance to put away her prejudices, Chloe shows she’s willing to make compromises and be really kind, even if she throws in her own sense of humor.
Of course, Chloe does have her own problems where she just doesn’t want to talk about or do certain things. Sure, Chloe has some independence in choosing to not do anything, but Clair made it harder. Instead of giving Chloe a home to live comfortably, Clair tells her to “earn it”. Instead of Chloe being able to work out her emotions, Clair tells her to “not think about it”. Chloe is taking advantage of the choices she does have (which are bad), but if given a place to feel safe (like with Pepper), Chloe would be much more open and kindhearted, even if she acts like a gremlin.
Which is why I really, really hope that Achilles can be to Clair what Pepper was to Chloe. Pepper brought out the better parts of Chloe that led to her healing and becoming more open. I hope Achilles can somehow do the same and bring out Clair’s better parts and becoming more open as well. Because in the end, while I despite Clair’s accusational attitude, I still wish for her healing as well so both sides can finally unite. But that will only happen when both sides can put away their pride, admit their wrongdoings, and be able to work together.
I don’t think Clair wanted the book gone from Chloe for fixing everything reasons, actually. I think Clair believes it’d be harmful for Chloe to read the book and wanted it gone for that reason. It doesn’t come off that way to Chloe, of course.
That too. In that regard, it just further delves into her “fixing” things (wrongly) by making sure things stay the same.
I mean, that’s assuming Clair is wrong about that. For all we know, reading the book would be bad for Chloe and Clair is doing the right thing trying to keep it away from her, even if doing so would make Chloe upset with her.
We found out how many replies deep is the limit lol:clair-despair:
It’s really amazing, honestly. XD
feeling like the shape of the crack reminds me of the last time we saw the traumatic event. considering peachy’s inclinations, i want to say it’s significant, but im not sure how yet :peachy-1:
the perspective here tickles my brain
same awawa
Chloe is so disinterested
no real reaction to being accused
straight to the point without any fucking around
someone get her a Mars, 2 bats and a pile of rocks
I can forgive clair for a lot of things, but her absolutely abysmal faith in chloe here… i can also forgive. It’s just gonna take me a minute
stone fruit :peachy-menacing:
“And what do we say.” 💔
When was the last time Clair has ever apologized to Chole. Like with genuine remorse for her actions. She must have spent so long finding reasons to be right all time with Chloe. When has she ever truly felt validated for her behaviors up til now? She’s been chasing validation so long, she’s forgotten what a pathway out looks like.
The conversation hasnt even ended yet, the comic is still ongoing, and she hasnt even had a chance to say anything in response to what chloe JUST told her, that it was actually peachy. The first line of the next comic could literally be “oh, ok sorry” but youre immediately jumping to conclusions. Im not saying that conclusion is unreasonable but god yall have NO faith in clair.
Clair frames everything in a way where she’s the responsible one who’s giving Chloe the world on a silver platter while Chloe fails to play along because of her bad character traits. Clair does this because she has her own issues, and they work as well with Chloe’s as ice cubes do with a deep fryer.
If you need Clair to turn around immediately and be understanding and conciliatory, you’re not really in Clair’s corner.
Also, note that Clair went “How did YOU manage to break the window” and not “Sorry I accused you of lying.” or “You were right.”.
Right, I am not trying to dog on Clair at all here. I’m just interpretting Chloe’s first sentence, since it’s pretty easy to see that Clair’s default reaction to anything happening is to blame Chloe. It’s one thing if she really did do it, but she didn’t this time and that has to hurt a bit. In this particular moment, Chloe expects Clair to think that she’s not the only one solely capable of property damage (a slightly unreasonable think, but that’s bc it’s in character with her personality).
If I didn’t have “faith” in Clair, it’s bc if how stubbornly she’s committed to continuing her dream of self-sabotage and misplaced good-will. It will take a TRULY significant event for her to finally wake up in a way that matters. THAT’S what I have faith in.
Like Clair seems very hung up on the version of Chloe that is unruly, uncontrollable, and inconsolable, that you have to wonder when was the last time she’s ever truly considered a Chloe that does things different, makes efforts to do something outside the pre-conceived notion. All this scene is telling me (even if it isn’t technically over yet) is how blind she is to it. It’s like when she asks why “*she* makes it so hard.” Does she actually want to know why, or is she only saying ‘why’ in the way that people do when they ask why life is so hard? Ya know? Idk, I may be thinking too deep on that part
halo head baseball episode when
technically, a peach caused that crack
did… she walk that far into Pepper’s house with Chloe’s tail in hand? leading that girl like a dog…
the way she stares but begrudgingly is led
It’s certainly a contrast with much, much earlier when she was perfectly happy to be led around by Mars.
You know what, I’ll play angel’s advocate a little. Clair’s getting dogpiled anyway.
Clair is dragging Chloe by the tail, sure, but she’s doing that because Chloe was trying to climb up Pepper’s roof two pages ago and could’ve broken something if Clair had let her. Chloe will sometimes hurt herself if unattended, see the bees nest and the ice tub. Manhandling Chloe to get her away from hazards is a strategy that works, and Clair’s just using it here. Though in large part when Chloe puts herself in danger she’s probably doing it to mess with Clair.
the window as imagery or symbolism is something we’ve seen a bunch of times now. in flashbacks/dreams, a viewpoint or literal window into someone else’s goings-on. the sun shining down through this window onto chloe when she wakes up in pepper’s house the first time. I guess you could also argue the person looking down into their glasses. I don’t think these things have a literal interpretation necessarily, but they are pretty hard to deny.
and now the window broken by peachy. it doesn’t feel prohibitive or like a setback. it feels more like smashing the window will lead (the readers at least) to some kind of revelation. especially with big ol’ five hundo coming up!!!!!! and I believe that peachy is more like a driving force for realization, like a hand out of clair’s control reaching in from the outside world, causing chaos (tho ironically made by her).
:clair-surprise:
Holy gacamoly 7 pages to 500!!
:pepper-cutesy:
the way she immediately defaults to being “how did YOU do this?” is so painful 💔
Can we appreciate how cool Pepper’s house is again? I mean, look at the bookshelves in the unused stairs. They are gorgeous! :peachy-cutesy: (also did we get new stickers?)
I know not everything has to be intimate but tying her up and leading her by her tail is crazy you gotta admit. Though it could also have other readings, like before they were talking about how she uses her tail to express some emotions so it doesn’t seem like a coincidence to show Clair grabbing it now :peachy-1:
Nice callback to #374 in the first panel :chloe-say:
broooo that panel of clair and chloe through the window would make for such a good PC background
poor girl just wants a sincere apology for once
chloe does NOT look happy to have herself handled by her own tail like a leash lol
:chloe-bored: 🪢 :clair-say:
chloe is going to beat peachy to death
tbh before perusing the other comments I didn’t even catch that the “you” was directed at Chloe in particular. I thought it was towards her and Pepper both, and I was kind of charmed by the idea of Clair having a mental image of them doing some insane activity on the roof or throwing shit in his house
Considering all the comments I’ve seen, I gotta come in and bat for Claire here.
Claire assumes fairly that is was Chloe because Chloe has a history of being destructive. It being Peachy wasn’t mentioned yet and all the information Claire has is she thinks Chloe is involved with it being broken, of course she’s going to assume it’s Chloe.
Now we have Chloe’s perspective who, obviously knows she didn’t do it, but her lack of reaction show’s she’s quite used to being blamed for things, and her calm response knows she might of gotten the blame, she’s used to it because I think she knows her own history.
Claire can not be blamed for her assumption in this moment, Chloe has a history of being reckless, destructive and lying. Chloe also replies here with an idea for an activity that would be messy and destructive, it’s not really painting her in a good light to Claire.
I think people tend to forget that there has been multiple layers and Claire remembers every single one while Chloe forgets, now this is by Claire’s own fault and she is burdening herself unasked BUT she also remembers The Event/trauma and deems it such an issue to remember she needs to protect Chloe from doing so (The mind repressing trauma).
Everything Claire does, while seemingly misaligned at points is always, in her head, to protect Chloe.
The point here is that Claire remembers alot more than we have privvy to and knows how Chloe acts over a very long period of time, it’s clear not much has changed, so Claire’s assumptions are based off of evidence.
This comment is specifically for this moment that people seem to be attacking Claire for lmao.
Just want to say sorry to everyone for starting a huge argument in the comments. Ive been very emotional lately as im trying to stop using a certain drug and i sorta went off on a tangent. I have a bad habit of arguing with people in comments after spending years on insta. Just wanna say i love all the halo head characters equally and this is easily my favorite comic to stay up to date with. Love yall and i got nothing against anyone who participated. :thesmoocher:
Don’t worry, I don’t think you were being argumentive, you were just clarifying and stating your points and explaining your interpretations and ideas about this comic and the characters.
Some points in the discussion from people did read off as them trying to state things as facts when I think everyone has to remember these are our opinions and own interpretations.
Imo you were fine :mors:
ty ❤️, there were points i couldve been less antagonistic tho so im gonna work on that.
Yeah you’re fine, don’t worry about it. I discuss things in comments because I like discussing things. I’m not doing it cause I’m mad or anything. This is a comic rich in subtle characterization and symbolism, it’s meant to be discussed IMO.
ty, it can be very hard to tell tone on the internet, big limit of text. I always try to assume people have the best intentions in mind but i get a little aggressive when people try to interpret my viewpoint. guess im kinda like chloe like that lol
try to guess*